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THE
SIIMME
AND
SUBSTANCE
OF THE
CONFERENCE
Which it pleafed his Excellent Majeftie to have with the
Lprds Bifliops, and others of his Clergie (at which the
moil of the Lords of the Councill were prefent) in his
Majefties Privie-Chamber, at Hampton Court Jan. 14.
1603.
CONTRACTED BY
WILLIAM BARLOW
DOCTOR OF DIVINITY, AND DEAN OF CHESTER.
Whereunto are added fome Copies (jcattered abroad)
unfavory, and untrue.
3 a •
V
>
^
^
ADVERTISEMENT.
T3ISH0P Barlow's account of the Hampton-
-*-* Court Conference, as a fingle trad, is now
become fcarce, and is not frequently to be
found entire in books of hiftory, or in collections
of tracts. It was published about a century ago,
in a work called the Phoenix; confidered then
as a tract no where to be found, but in the clofets
of the curious. The frequent references to it,
lately made by certain writers, have induced the
Editors of the " Churchman's Remembrancer"
to bring forward this interefting Account, in
full confidence that it will prove an acceptable
prefent to the public, and be ferviceable to the
caufe of fober religion. With refpect to the
authority of the piece as an authentic report of
the Conference, there has been, as mull; be
expected, fome little debate ; the adherents to
the .wprfted party affecting to call in qneftion
the veracity of the good Biihop, whilil the
victorious receive it as a true and faithful nar-
A 3 srative.
( vi )
rative. The objecrions to this account of
Bifhop Barlow are to be feen in the writings of
James Peirce, and Daniel Neale. Peirce, in his
Vindication of the DiiTenters, a work which
we believe has long enjoyed the rank of a text
book among that party, confidently fpeaks of this
Account as a falfe one, and gives a more true
and exacl one from Mr. Calderwood. He argues
that Bifiiop Barlow's account cannot be a true
one, becaufe it reprefents Dr. Raynolds, who
was celebrated for one of the moft famous
divines of his age, as talking at the Conference
in a ftupid, filly, and childim way ; and afferts,
that the Biihop repented upon his death-bed of
the wrong he had done Dr. Raynolds and his
brethren. Neal fays, That this Conference was
publifhed at large only by Dr. Barlow, who
being a party, lays Fuller, {et a fharp edge on
his own, and a blunt one on his adverfaries
weapons. He quotes Peirce to fhew, that Drs.
Sparks and Raynolds complained, that they
were wronged in that relation ; that Dr. Jackfon
declared that Barlow repented of it upon his
death-bed ; and that Calderwood, by means of
Patrick Galloway, has fet things in a different
light. He further fays from Peirce, (which
Peirce gives from an old Pamphlet,) u It is
" very certain that Bifhop Barlow has cut off*
" and concealed all the fpceches that his
" M<jeily
( vii )
" Majefty made again!! the corruptions of the
" Church, and the practices of the Prelates,
" cScc. That the Puritans objected to the
" account of the Conference by Dean Barlow,
" as publiihed without the knowledge, advice
" or confent of the other fide." (Hill, of the
Pur. Vol. 1.) So much for the objections
againft the Account of this Conference, which
originate for the mod part with Peirce. On
the other fide of the queftion, we offer the fol-
lowing obfervations and authorities.
Peirce boldly calls Bifhop Barlow's, a falfe ac-
count; but, for ought to be feen in his Vindica-
tion, there is nothing brought to prove it fo.
That " Calderwood's mould appear at firft fight
" vaftly different from Biiliop Barlow's rela-
ct tion," appears neither ftrange nor at all incre-
dible ; and furely he would not have us confider
the mere circumftance of the difference of the
two relations, as any proof that Barlow's is
falfe. Calderwood was a Prefbyterian ; he fends
his brief account, adopted from a letter of Pa-
trick Galloway, a Prefbyterian, to the Prefby-
tery at Edinburgh. But we muft not forget,
that Calderwood's Hiflory is a poflhumous
work, extracted from materials written by him,
during his retirement in Holland ; " whither he
" had been driven by James and his Privy-
A 4 council,
f viii )
" council, for his lingular obilinacy and info-
" lence;" fays Skinner. (Eccl. Hid. of Scot-
land, V. 2. p. 265.) Barlow's Account is not
the report of himfelf alone, nor of the Confer-
ence at large, as Neale erroneouily fpeaks.
He defires the reader to take it " but as an
" extract, wherein is the fubftance of the
" whole. Intercourfe of fpeeches, fays he,
" there occaiioned, would caufe prolixity,
" without profit. What every man faid, point
" device, I neither could nor cared to obferve.
" The vigor of every objection^ with the fum
ei of each anfwer, I guefs, I mifs not. For the
" firft day, I had no help beyond mine own ;
" yet fome of good place and underftanding
" have feen it, and not controled it, except for
" the brevity : For the two laft, out of divers
" copies, I have fele6ied what you fee," viz.
" thole of the Bimop of London, Deans of
" Chrift-Church, Winchefter and Windfor,
" the Archdeacon of Nottingham, and mine
" own." (See, To the Reader.) Peirce's quo-
tation from an old pamphlet, produced to
" throw light" upon the queftion, has not the
effect upon us, to make us fee our way the bet-
ter. It is without a name : we cannot there-
fore appreciate its authority. The defign of it is
precifely that which might be expected from the
difappointed party. It complains that " Bar-
" low's
( i* )
" low's account was publifhed only by the Pre-
€< lates, who are partial, without the know-
" ledge, advice or confent, (how extraordi-
" nary !) of the other fide, and fo (moft
" clearly!) deferving of no credit; that the
" minifters were unfairly ufed, &e. And
" concludes with affirming, that all and every
il one of the arguments and atfertions pro-
" pounded in the Conference againft them,
*c by any Prelate, are moft vain and frivolous;
" and that they would, if permitted, deliver in
44 one week's fpace, a full anfwer to any of
** them."
This is a bold aifertion, and a very formi-
dable challenge. But if the ftatement and com-
plaint of the Puritans had been juft, why did
they not give the public, as they were in duty
bound, their fum and fubftance of the Confer-
ence? If the Bithop's was falfe, why did they
not fet forth a true and correct account? Yet
fo it has happened, that no account of any note
has come down to us, but that of Bifhop Bar-
low : and this, notwithstanding there were feve-
ral able men at the Conference, of the Puritan
party, who filled the country with grievous com-
plaints of their hard treatment, and of the falfe-
hood and partiality of the Bifliops' account
Peirce
( x )
Peirce argues that Barlow's account cannot be
true, be.caufe he reprefents Dr. Raynolcls, " who
" was one of the mod celebrated divines of his
" age," as talking at the Conference in a ftu-
pid, filly, and chiidifh manner. We are inclined
to leave Dr. Raynolds's character for learning
untouched : But it mult be obferved, that this
very circumftance, of his ftupid and chiidiili
talking at the Conference, furnifhes an unan-
fwerable proof of Dr. Barlow's veracity, as an
hiftorian. For, fays Fuller, (an author who,
Strype was obliged to confefs, fays Peirce, was
a little inclined to the Puritans, and therefore
no objectionable authority with the Vindicator
of the DhTenters,) " It is generally faid, that
" Dr. Raynolds fell much beneath himfeif:
" befules, no wonder, faid the Nonconform
" mills, that Dr. Raynolds a little loft himfeif,
li whofe eyes were partly dazzled with the light
" of the King's majefty, partly daunted with
' ' the heat of his difpleafure. " (p.. 21.)
In anfwev to Peirce's affertion, that " Biihop
" Barlow repented upon his death-bed, of the
" wrong he had done Dr. Raynolds and his
" brethren, which, he fays, was attefted by Dr.
" Henry Jackfon," take the following paffage
from Heylin's Him of the Prelbyterians. (373.)
He adopts the Biihops' account without re~
ferve,
( si )
ferve, and fays ; " The fum and fubftance of
this Conference collected by the hand of Dr.
Barlow, then Dean of Chefter, can hardly be
abbreviated to a lefTer compafs without great
injury to the King- and conferees." And
afterwards, " The truth and honefty of whofe
collections having been univerfally approved
above 50 years, hath been impugned of late
by fome forry fcribblers of the Puritan faction ;
and a report railed of fome retractation which
he is fabled to have made at the time of his
death, of the great wrong which he had
done to Dr. Raynolds and the reft of the mil-
lenaries ; the iillinefs of which fiction hath
been elfe where canvaffed, and therefore not
to be repeated in this time and place. But
for the clearing of that reverend perfon from
lb foul a calumny, we mall not make ufe of
any other arguments than the words of K.
James, who tells us, in his proclamation of
the fifth of March, That he did not con-
ceal that the fuccefs of that Conference was
fnch as happeneth to many other things,
which moving great expectations before they
be entered into, in their iffue produce fmall
effects. That he found mighty and vehement
informations, fupported with fo weak and
flender proofs, as it appeared unto him and
his council, that there was no caufe why any
" change
( xii )
" change mould be in that which was moft im-
" pugned ; viz. the book of Common Prayer,
" &c." It is probable that Heylin, when
he mentions, " that the fillinefs of the ficlion
" has been elfewhere handled," alludes to his
Poftfcript at the end of the Quinquarticular
Hift. in which he mews the very weak ground
upon which the ftory of Dr. Barlow's repent-
ing ftands. " Firft, fays he, the man is dead
" from whom we are to take our greater!: light,
" in lb dark a bufinefs. Secondly, the credit of
" the figment refteth on two common vouchers,
" that is to fay, J. M. and H. I. as eafy to be
" found, and as honeft folk, as Nicholas Nemo
li in Utopia, or Madam Charity of the Oude-
" meon Street in Mantinea. Thirdly, it mud
" needs feem ftrange to a fober reader, that
ci this great truth fliould lie concealed, like a
" fpark raked up in afhes, 55 years, and then
11 blaze out of a hidden, when it was not
" thought of. And, fourthly, I had once the
" happinefs to be exceeding well acquainted
" with Mailer Thomas Sparks, and Matter
" William Sparks, the only fons of Dr. Sparks,
" before remembered; and having had many
" opportunities of difcourfing with them about
11 that Conference, and their father's acling in
" the fame, I never heard the leaft word from
" either of them, of any wrong done, or fup-
" pofed
( xiii )
%< pofed to be done, by Dr. Barlow, in drawing
" up the fubftance and abridgement of it : fo
" that I doubt not, but that it will appear on
" the full debate, that Dr. Barlow is more
4{ wronged in his fame by thefe libellers pam-
<l phlets, than ever Dr. Raynolds had been in-
" jured by that learned Prelate."
Peirce is not fatisfied with running down the
authority of Barlow, in the unwarrantable man-
ner we have mewn ; impatient with his ill fuc-
cefs, perhaps, he contradicts a fact, and oppofes
to it his probable conjecture. " Dr. Ray-
" nolds, fays he, (154) was not chqfen by our
" fide to manage the Conference ; he and the
" reft were probably pitched upon by the Bifhops,
" and then called to it by the King." Unfor-
tunately for the credit of James Peirce, a well
known Biographer of godly preachers, ililed
by Calamy, a man of great plain-heartednefs
and fmcerity, (whom J. P. is not averfe to
quote upon proper occafions,) thus writes.
" Chaderton was one of the four divines for the
" Conference at Hampton Court, chofen by the.
6e minifiers that defired a reformation in church
" Government, and for his learning and fuffi-
" ciency was the fame year chofen to be one of
" the tranflators of the Bible." (Clarke's life of
Chaderton, p. 169.) The reader will determine
what
( xiv )
what degree of refpect. is due .to fuch a writer as
this.
Neale, the author of the Hiftory of the Puri-
tans, follows Peirce's account ; and adopts his
objections and errors in almoft every particular.
We obferve no original objections again ft Bar-
low's account, nor any argument offered to fup-
port thofe of Peirce, We mention him now, to
notice one of many difmgenuous tricks, to ferve
his purpofe and his party. Fuller, in his
Church Hift. of Great Britain, gives this Con-
ference in the form of dialogue; reprefenting the
perfons there prefent, fpeaking in the firft perfon.
But he appears to follow Bifliop Barlow in the fub-
ftance of what is related, in all material points.
At the conclufion he fays, that, " Some Noncon-
" foi milts complain that this Conference is par-
" tialiy fet forth onely by Dr. Barlow, Dean of
" Chefter, their profeffed ad verfary, to the great
" difad vantage of their divines. And when
Ci the Ifraelites go down to the Philiftines to
" whet all their iron tools, no wonder if they
" fet a lliarp edge on their own, and a blunt
" one on their enemies weapons." (B. 10. p.
21.) Now, who but the Puritan Hiftorian,
could have converted this paffage, into a pofi-
tive condemnation of Barlow, for partiality?
Neale's words are thefe, c< Dr. Barlow, being
" a party
( xv )
*' a party, fays Fuller, fet a fharp edge on
" his own, and a blunt one on his adverfaries
*' weapons." The reader will obferve, that
Fuller fays no fuch thing. He fays that the Non-
conformifts faid fo. But the Puritan Hiftorian,
judging perhaps that Fuller's name would cut
a figure among his Worthies, by this fly trick,
tit mos eft, et fieri Jblet, makes him at once his
own
That valuable Hiftorian Strype, is very ftrong
and explicit in favour of Barlow's Account.
" That the very truth might appear, fays he,
*' there was an authentic relation of it; (viz.
V the Hampton Court Conference,) written by
*' one of the divines there prefent, viz. Barlow,
u Dean of Chefter; and that, by the Arch-
" bifhop's own order, impofing this work upon
<l him; which therefore we may conclude was
" carefully reviewed by himfeif. And that it
" might be more exacl and compleat, it was
" compared and enlarged by the writer, (before
ic it was publifhed,) with the notes and copies
" of the Bifhop of London, the Deans of
<( Chrift-Church, Winchefter, Windfor, and
" the Archdeacon of Nottingham.
The reader will now be enabled to form a
judgment for himfeif, with refpecl to the au-
th en city
( xvi )
thencity of Bifliop Barlow's work. With refpecl
to ourfelves, when we confider that Bifliop Bar-
low's account of this famous Conference is
admitted, by all parties, to be the only one fet
forth, and is accordingly by all parties continu-
ally quoted ; that it was fet forth, not upon
his own authority alone, but with the affiftance
and allowance of feveral of the great men then
prefent ; that no objections to the authenticity of
this account, of any confequence, were brought
forward for a confiderable time after it took
place ; and that the heft of thofe objections
were weakly and fufpicioully urged, and never
proved ; when we fee two writers on the Puritan
fide, confeffedly their belt hands, one, quoting
his author to make him fpeak what he never in-
tended, another confidently denying what a
writer of their own affirms to have happened,
and then proceeding to give a probable conjec-
ture, in oppofition to a matter of fact : without
hefitation, we offer this Tract to the notice of
the public, as well deferving attention ; it has
paffed the ordeal of its enemies utmoft malice,
and is found to be a true and faithful work.
Dec. 17, 18C4.
( xvii )
TO THE
READER.
^JIHTS Copy of the Conference in Ja-
nuary laji9 hath been long expected,
and long f nee it was finified : impeachments;
of the divulging, were many ; two main
above the reft : one, his * untimely deaths
who firfi impofed it upon me, with whom is
buried the famoufeft glory of our Englifh
Church, and the mofl kind incouragment to
paines andfiudy : A man happy iit his life
and death; loved of the beft while he
lived; and heard of God for his de-
ceafe; moft earneftly defiririg* not many
dayes before he was ftroken, that he
might not (yet) live to fee this Parlia-
ment, as neer as it was.
The other, an expectation of this late Co-
* Archiepifco. Cantuar.
a mitial
( xviii )
initial Conference, much threatned before,
and triumphed in by many ; as if that Regal
and moji honourable proceedings flioidd
thereby have received his counterblaft, for
being too forward. But his Majefties Con-
ftancy having, by the lajl, added comfort
and jirength to this former, which now, at
length, comes abroad, therein, good Rea-
der, thou mayeft both fee thofe huge pre-
tended Scandals (for which our flourifliing
Church hath been fo long difturbed) objected
and removed ; and withall behold the exprejfe
and vive Image of a moji learned and judici-
ous King, whoje manifold gifts of Grace
and Nature, my f cant meafure of gift is not
able to delineate, nor am I willing to enume-
rate, becaufe I have ever accounted the per-
fonal commendation of living Princes, in
■men of our fort, a verbal Symonie ; Such
Flies there are too many, which puffe the
{kin, but taint theflefli. His Majejiies hum-
ble deportment in thofe fublimities, will be the
eternizing of his memory, the rather, becaufe
Kocrarrs^a] roh c\&ov, to digeft lb great Fe-
licity without furfet of jurquedry, is a vir-
tue, "are in great perfonages, and that,
which
( xix )
which the King of Heaven feared, even the
King of his own choice would want. The
more eminent he is, in all princely qualities,
the happier fliall we be : our duty, as we are
Chrifiians, is Prayer for him ; as we are
Subjects, Obedience to him ; as we are
men, acknowledgment of our fettled ftate
in him ; Our unthankfulneffe may remove
him, as it did the mirror of Princes, our
late famous Elizabeth. She re/is with God,
the Phoenix of her ajlies reignes over us, and
long may he fo do to Gods Glory, and
the Churches good, which his excellent know-
ledge beautifieth, and government adjoyned
will beatific it. An hope of this laji we con-
ceive by his written BatriXixov : a Specimen
of the other, in this Interlocutory Confer-
ence : whereof take this, which is printed,
but as an Extract, wherein is the Subftance
of the whole. Intercourfe of fpeeches, there
occafioned, would caufe prolixity zmthout pro-
jit : what every man faid, point devife, I*
neither coidd, nor cared to obferve ; the vi-
gor of every objection, with the fumme of
each anfwer, I gueffe I mifje not : For the
firjl day, I had no help beyond mine own ; yet
a 2 me
( w )
fome of good place and underftanding, have
feen it, and not controlled it, except for the
brevity : for the two laft out of divers * Co-
pies, I have feJeSted and ordered what you
here fee : in them all, next unto God, the
Kings Majejiy alone muft have the Glory :
Yet to fay, that the prefent State of our
Church, is very much obliged to the reverend
Fathers, my Lords of London and Winton,
their pains and dexterity in this bufnejfe,
were neither detraction from other ; nor
flattery of them. His Highneffe purpofed
to eompofe all quarrels of this kind,
hereby, and fuppofing He had fettled all mat-
ters of the Church, it pleafed him fo iofig-
'life by Proclamation after it was done :
hit there is a triple generation in the
11 oriel, of whom the Wifeman fpeaheth, -f-
Marry I fay nothing (for even private
fpeeclies cannot now paffe without the fmeer
qf a Black Cole.) In one rank whereof
you may place our Hercules Limbomaftix,
* Ep. Lond: Deancs of Chrillch. Wincheft. Windfor.
Archdea. Nottipgh. ?-nd mine own.
+ Fro. 30. 12. 13, 14.
whom
( xxi )
whom it might have pleafed, without this
Gnathonicall appeal, to have rejied His
Majejiies determination, and being a Synop-
tical Theologue lv irXmh, and angry that
he was not, jo, kut Ittito^tiv, have learned
the difference in Divinity, between viam Re-
gis, and, viam gregis.
Many Copies of divers forts have been
fcattered and fent abroad, fome partial, fome
untrue, fome flanderous. What is here fet
doztm, for the truth thereof fliall be jufli-
fied : the onely wrong therein, is to his Ex-
cellent Majejly, a fy liable of whofe admira-
ble fpeeches, it was pitty to lofe, his words
as they were uttered by him, being as Solo-
mon fpeaket h, * like Apples of Gold, with
pictures of Silver ; and therefore I requeji
thee, good Reader, when thou commefi to
any of his Highneffe fpeeches, to turn Mar-
tial his Apoftrophe upon me.
Tu male jam recitas, incipit effe tuus,
and I mil take it kindly. If thou be honefi,
* Pro. 25. 1 u
and
( xxii )
and courteous, thou wilt rejl fatisfied, and
that is my content : to lay a pillow for a
Dog> forts neither with my leifure, nor pur-
pofe. Farewell.
Thine in Chrift Jeftu.
W. Barlow,
THE
FIRST DAYES
CONFERENCE,
''Tp H E day appointed was, as by his Majejlies
-*• Proclamation we all know, Thurfday the
the 12. of January, On which there met at
Hampton Court by nine of the clock, all the
Bifhops and Deanes, fummoned by letters^
namely, the Archbiihop of Canterbury, the Bi-
fhopsof London, Durham, Winchester, Worcefter,
S. Davids, Chichefter, Cartel, and Peterborow ;
the Deanes of the Chapell, Chrifts-Church, Wor-
cejier, Wefiminfter, Pauls, Chefier, Win for,
with Doctor Field, and Doctor King, Arch-
Deacon of Nottingham : who though the night
before, they heard a rumor that it was deferred
till the fourteenth day, yet according to the
firft fummons, thought it their duty to offer
themfelves to the Kings prefence, which they
did, At zvkich time it pleafed his Highneffe to
B fguifie
( 2 )
jignlfie unto the Bijhops, that the day having-
prevented, or deceived him, he zvould have them
return on Saturday next following : On which
day, all the Deanes and Doctors attending my
Lords the Biihops, into the prefence Chamber,
there we found fitting upon a form, Doctor
Reinolds, Doctor Spar Ices, Mailer Knexvflubs,
and Mafter Chaderton, Agents for the Millenary
plaintifTes. The Biihops entring the privy
Chamber, flared there, till commandement
came from his Majefxy, that none of any fort,
ihoukl be prefent, but only the Lords of the
Privie Council, and the Biihops, with fiv&.
Deanes, viz. Of the Chapel, JVejiminjler, Pauls,
Weftchefler, Saii/bury, who being called in, the
door was clofe ihut by my Lord Chamberlain.
After a while, his excellent Majefty came in,
and having paffed a few pleafant gratulations
with fome of the Lords, he fat down in his
Chair, removed forward from the cloth of State
a pretty diftance ; J V here, beginning with a moji
grave, and Princely Declaration of his general
drift in calling this ajfembly, no novel device, but
according to the example of all Chriftian Princes,
who in the Commencement of their Reign,
ufually take the firfi cour/e for the ejlablifhing of
the Church, both for Doctrine, and Policie, to
which the very Heathens themfelves had relation
hi
( 3 )
in their Proverb, A Jove Prhieipium, and par-
ticularly, in this Land, King Henry the 8. to-
ward the end of his Reign ; after him King Ed-
ward the 6. mho altered more ; After him Queen
Mary, who rcoerfed all ; And laft the Queen of
famous Memory, fo his Highneffe added (for it is
worth noting, that his Majefty never remembred
her, but with fome honourable addition) who fet-
tled it as now it Jiandeth ; Wherein, he /did that
he was happier than they, in this, becaufe they
were fain to alter all things they found ejiabUJJied,
but he faw yet no caufe fo much to alter, and change-
any thing, as to confirm that which he found well
fetled already ; which jiate as it feemed, fo affected
his Royal heart, that it pleafed him both to enter
into a gratulation to Almighty God, (at zvhick
words, he put off his hat) for bringhg him
into the promifed Land, where Religion zvas
purely profeffed, where he fate among grave
learned and reverend men, not> as before, elfe-
where, a King without State, without Honour,
without Order, where beardleffe boyes would brave,
him to his face, and to affure us, that he called
not this affembly for any Innovation, achiowledg-
ing the government Ecclefiaftical, as now it is, to
have been approved by manijold bleffings from God
himfelf. both for the increafe of the Gofpel, and
with a mofi happy and glorious peace ; yet becaufe
nothing could be fo abfolutely ordered, but fome-
thing might be added afterzvard thereunto, and in
B 2 any
( 4 >
any State, as in the body of man, corruptions
might infaijibly grow, either through time or per-
fons : and in that he had received many com-
plaints, Jince his firji enterance into the King-
dome, efpec'mlly through the dijjentions in the
Church, of many diforders, as he heard, and
much difobedience to the Laxves, with a great
falling away to Popery ; his purpofe therefore
was, like a good Phyjician, to examine and try
the complaints, and fully to remove the occajions
thereof, if they prove fcandalous, or to cure them,
if they were dangerous, or, if but frivolous, yet
to take knoxv ledge of them, thereby to cajl a fop
into Cerberus his mouth, that he may never bark
again, his meaning being, as he plea fed to pro-
fejje, to give factious fpirits, no occafwn hereby,
of boa fling or glory, for which caufe he had called
the Bifnops in, fever ally be themfelves, not to be
confronted by the contrary opponents, that if any
thing Jhould be found meet to be redrejfed, it
might be done, (which his Majefty twice, or
thrice as occafion fcrved, reiterated) without any
vijiblc alteration.
And this was the firm, fo far as my dull head
could conceive and carry it, of his Majejlies gene-
ral fpcech. In particular he Jignified unto them
the principul matters, why he called them alone,
with whom he would confult about fome fpecial
points.
( 5 )
points, wherein himfelf defired to be fatisfied ;
theft he reduced to three heads : Firft, concern -
ing the Book of Common-Prayer, and Divine
Service ufed in this Church. Second, Excommu-
nication in the Ecclefiajiical Courts. Third, the
providing of fit and able Miniftersfor Ireland.
In the Book he required fatisfaclion about three
things. Firft, about Confirmation ; firft for the
name, if arguing a Confirming of Baptifm, as if
this Sacrament without it were of no validity,
then were it biafphemous : Secondly, for the ufe,
firft brought upon this occajion; Infants being
Baptized, and anfwering by their Patrini, it was
necefjary they Jhould be examined, when they
came to yeares of difcretion, and after their pro-
fejjion made by themfelves, to be confirmed with a
Bleffing, or prayer of the Bijliop, laying his
hands upon their heads, abhorring the abufe in
Popery, where it was made a Sacrament and cor-
roboration to Baptifm.
The fecond was for Abfolution, which how we
ufed it in our Church, he knew not, he had heard
it likned to the Popes pardons, but his Majefties
opinion was, that, there being only tzvo kinds
thereof from God, the one general, the other
particular: for the firft, all Prayers, and
Preachings do import an Abfolution : for the fe-
B 3 conl
( 6 )
cond, it is to be applied to [pedal parties, wh&
having commit ed a fcandal, and ixpenting, are
abfolved-: otherwife, where there precedes not
either excommunication, or penance, there needs
no abfolution,
- The third was private Baptifm, if private for
place, his Majefty thought it agreed with the life
of the Primitive Church; if for per fans, that
any but a lawfull Minijter might Baptize any
where, he utterly difliked ; and in thu point his
Highneffe grew fomewhat earneft againjl the Bap-
tizing by Women and Laikes.
The fecond head was Excommunication, wherein
he offered two things to be considered of, frji, the
matter : fecond, the perfon. In the matter, frft,
xohether it zvere executed (-as it is complained) in
light caufes ; fecond, whether it were not ufed too
often. In the Perfons, frft, why Laymen, as
Chancellors and Commijjaries jliould do it ? fe-
cond, why the Bijhops themfelves, for the more
dignity to fo high and iveighty a cenfure, jhould
not take unto them, for their affiflants, the Dean
and Chapter, or other Minifters, and Chaplains
&f gravity and account : and fo likewife in other
cenfures, and giving of Orders, &c.
The laft for Ireland, his Majefty referred, as
you
( 7 )
you fhall in the laft dayes Conference hear, to
a confultation. His Highneffe (to whom I
offer great wrong, in being as Phocion to De-
wiofthenes, xoVic-twv \oyw the Hatchet to cut
ihort fo amiable a fpeech) having ended, the
Lord Arch-Bifhop, after that, on his knee, he
had fignified how much this whole Land was
bound to God, for fetting over us a King, fo
wife, learned, and judicious, addrelTed himfelf
to enform his Majefty of all thefe points in their
feveral order.
And firft, as touching Confirmation, he
fhewed at large the antiquity of it, as being ufed
in the Catholique Church ever fince the Apof-
tles time, till that of late fome particular
Churches had unadvifedly rejected it. Then he
declared the Lawful ufe of it, agreeable to his
Majefties former fpeech, affirming it to be a meer
calumniation, and a very untrue fuggeftion, if
any had informed his Highneffe, that the
Church of England did hold or teach, that
without Confirmation, Baptifm was un perfect,
or that it did adde any thing to the vertue, and
ftrength thereof. And this he made manifeft by
the Rubricks in the Communion Book fet before
Confirmation, which were there read.
My Lord of London fucceedcd, faying, that
B 4 the
( 8 )
the authority of Confirmation, did not depend
onely upon the Antiquity and practice of the
Primitive Church, which out of Cyprian, Ep.
73. and Hieron. adverfus Luciferian. he mewed,
but that it M'as an inflitution Apoftolical, and
one of the particular points of the Apoftles Ca«
techifm, fet clown and named in expreffe words
Heb. 6. 2. and fo did Mailer Calvin expound
that very place, who wiihed earneftly the refti-
tution thereof in thofe reformed Churches,
where it had been abolifhed. Upon which
place the Bifhop of Carleil alfo infilled, and
urged it both gravely and learnedly. His Ma-
jefty called for the Bible, read the place of the
Hebrews, and approved the expojition.
Something alfo the Bifhop of Durham noted,
out of the Gofpel of Saint Matthexv, for the im-
pofition of hands upon Children. The conclu-
fion was, for the fuller explanation, that we
make it not a Sacrament, or a corroboration to
a former Sacrament, That it Jliould be confidered
of by their Lordjhips, whether it might not,
without alteration (whereof his Majejly was Jlill
very wary) be intituled an Examination xvith a
Confirmation,
Next in order, was the point of Abfolution,
which the Lord Arch-Bimop cleared from
all
( 9 )
all abufe, or fuperftition, as it is ufed in our
Church of England: reading unto his Majefty,
both the Confeffion in the beginning of the
Communion Book, and the Abfolution fol-
lowing it, wherein, (faith he) the Minifter doth
nothing elfe but pronounce an abfolution in ge-
neral. His Highneffe perufed them both in the
Book it felfi liking and approving them, finding it
to be very true, which my Lord Arch-Bijhop
[aid; But the Bifhop of London ftepping for-
ward, added, it becometh us to deal plainly
with your Majefty : there is aifo in the Com-
munion Book, another more particular and per-
fonal form of abfolution, prefcribed to be ufed
in the order for the Vifitation of the fick ; this
the King required to fee, and whilft Matter
Dean of the Chapel was turning to it, the faid
Bifhop alleged, that not only the Confeffions of
Augujia, Boheme, Saxon, which he there cited,
do retain and allow it, but that Matter Calvin did
alfo approve fucli a general kind of Confeffion,
and Abfolution, as the Church of Englan d ufeth,
and withall, did very well like of thofe which
are private, for fo he terms them. The faid
particular Abfolution in the Common Prayer
Book being read, his Majejty exceedingly well ap-
proved it, adding, that it was Apofolical, and a
very good Ordinance, in that it was given in the
name
( io )
name of Chrift, to one that defired it, and upon
the clearing of his confcience.
The Conclufion was, that it fhould be con-
fulted of by the Biihops, whether unto the Ru-
brike of the general Abfolution, thefe words,
Remiffion of fins, might not be added for ex-
planation fake.
In the third place, the Lord Arch Biiliop pro-
ceeded to fpeak of Private Baptifm, mewing his
Majefty, that the adminiftration of Baptifm by
Women and Lay-perfons was not allowed in the
praclice of the Church, but enquired of, by
Bifhops in their Vintation, and cenfured ; nei-
ther do the words in the Book inferre any fuch
meaning : Whereunto the King excepted, urging
and pr effing the words of the Book, that they
could not but intend a permiffion, and Suffering
of Women, and private perfons to Baptize. Here
the Bifhop of Worcefter faid, that indeed the
words were doubtful, and might be preffed to
that meaning, but yet it feemed by the contrary
praclice of our Church, (cenfuring Women in
this cafe) that the compilers of the Book did
not fo intend them, and yet propounded them
ambiguoufly, becaufe otherwife, perhaps, the
Book would not have then palled in the Parlia-
ment, (and for this conjecture, as I remember,
he
( ii )
he cited the teftimony of my Lord Arch Bifliop
of York':) whereunto the Bifliop of London
replied, that thofe learned and reverend men,
who framed the Book of Common Prayer,
intended not by ambiguous termes to de-
ceive any, but did, indeed, by thofe words in-
tend a permiffion of private perfons, to Bap-
tize in cafe of necevuty, whereof their Letters
were witneffes, fome parts whereof he then read,
and withall declared that the fame was agreeable
to the practice of the antient Church ; urging
to that purpofe, both Act. 2. Where 3000.
were Baptized in one day, which for the Apof-
tles alone to do, was impofiible, at leaft impro-
bable ; and befides the Apoftles, there were then
no Bifhops or Priefts : And alfo the authority of
Tertidlian, and Saint Ambrofe in the fourth to
the Ephejians, plain in that point, laying alfo
open the abfurdities and impieties of their opi-
nion who think there is no necefhty of Baptilm,
which word Neceffity, he fo prefixed not, as if
God without Baptifm could not fave the child ;
but the cafe put, that the ftate of the Infant,
dying unbaptized, being uncertain, and to God
only known ; but if it die Baptized, there is an
evident aiTurance, that it is faved. Who is he
that having any Religion in him would not
jpeedily, by any means, procure his child to be
Baptized, and rather ground his action upon
Chrifts
( 12 )
Chrifts promife, than his omiffion thereof, upon
Gods fecret judgment ?
His Majefty replied, firft to that place of the
A&s, that it was an Act extraordinary, neither
is it found req fining from things done before a
Church be fetled and grounded, unto thofe which
are to be performed in a Church flabliJJied and
fiourijhing : That he alfo maintained the necefity
of Baptifm, and atomies thought, that the place
of S. John, Nifi quis reiiatus fuerit ex aqua,
Sec. Was meant of the Sacrament of Baptifm,
and that he had fo defended it againfi fome Mini-
Jlers in Scotland, and it may feemft range to you
my Lords, faith his Majefty, that I, who noxc
think you in England gite too much to Baptifm,
did 14 Moneths ago in Scotland argue with my
Divines there for a/bribing too little to that holy
Sacrament. Infomuch that a pert Minifter ajked
■me, if I thought Baptifm fo neceffary, that if it
were omitted, the child JJiould be damned ? I an-
petered him, No, but if you, being called to Bap-
tize the Child, though privately, Jhould refufe
to come, I think, you Jliall be damned. But this
necefjity of Baptifm, his Majefty fo expounded,
that it was neceffary to be had, where it might be
lawfully had, id eft, minifired by lawful Mini-
fters, by whom alone, and by no private perfon,
he thought it might not, in any cqfe be admi-
niftred;
5
( 13 )
niftred; and yet utterly dijliked all rebaptiza-
toin, although either Women or Laikes had
Baptized.
Here the Bifhop of Winchefter fpake very
learnedly, and earnestly, in that point, af-
firming, that the denying of private perfons,
in cafes of neceflity, to Baptize, were to croft
all Antiquity, feeing, that it had been the an-
cient and common practice of the Church,
when Minifters at fuch times could not be got,
and that it was alfo a rule agreed upon among
Divines, that the Minifter is not of the EtYence
of the Sacrament. His Majejiy anfzvered,
though he be not of the E fence of the Sacrament,
yet is he of the E fence of the right and laxvful
Minijiry of the Sacrament, taking for his ground
the commifion of Chrift to his Difciples, Mat. 28.
20. Go Preach and Baptize.
The ifTue was a confultation, whether into
the Rubrick of Private Baptifm, which leaves it
indifferently to all Laikes or Clergy, the words,
Curate or lawful Minifter, might not be in-
ferted, which was not fo much ftuck at by the
Bifhops. And fo his Majejiy proceeded to the
next point, about Excommunication, in caufes of
lefer moment : Firft, zohether the name might
not be altered, and yet the fame Cenfure be re-
tained T
( 14 )
ta\ntd : Or fecondly, whether in place of it,
another Coercion equivalent thereunto might
not be invented and thought of. A thins; verv
eafily yielded unto of all fides, becaufe it had
been long and often defired, but could not be
obtained from her Majefty, who refolved to be
ftill femper eadem, and to alter nothing which flic
had once fetled.
And thus the Wednesday fucceeding, being
appointed for the exhibiting of their determina-
tions in thefe points, and the Monday next im-
mediately following this prefent day, for the
Opponents to bring in their Complaints, we
were dif miffed after three hours, and more
fpent ; which, were foon gone; fo admirably,
both for underftanding, fpeech, and Judgement,
did his Majefiy handle all thofe points, fending
us away, not with contentment only, but afto-
niihment, and, which is pitiful, you will fay,
with ihame to us all, that a King brought up,
among Puritans, not the learnedft men in the
World, and fchooled by them ; fwaying a King-
dom full of buiinefTe, and troubles, naturally
given to much exercife, and repaii, mould in
points of Divinity mew himfelf as expedite and
perfect,, as the greateft Scholars, And moji induf
trlous Students, there prefent, miglit not out /trip
h'un. But this one thing I might not omit, that
8 his
( 15 )
his Majefty fhould pitfejfe, howfoever he Iked
among Puritans, and was kept, for the mojl
part, as a Ward under them, yetjince he was of
the age of his Sonne, ten years old, he ever dis-
liked their opinions, as the Saviour of the World
faid, Though he lived among them, he was not
of them.
Finis primas diei,
THE
THE
SECOND DAYES
CONFERENCE.
ON Monday, January fixteen, between 11.
and 12. of the clock, were the 4. Plan-
titles called into the privy Chamber, (the two
Biflrops of London, and TVinchefter being there
before) and after them all the Deanes, and
Doctors prefent, which had been fummoned,
Pair. Galloway fometime Minifter of Perth in
Scotland, admitted alfo to be there, the Kings
Majcfty, en t ring the Chamber, prefently took
his Chair, placed as the day before (the noble
young Prince, fitting by upon a ftool) where
making a mort, but a pithy and fweet fpeech,
to the fame purpofe, which the firft day he
made, viz. Of the end of the Conference,
meet to be had he fold by every King, at his firft
entrance to the Crown ; not to innovate the Go-
vernment prefently eftabUJJied, which by long ex-
perience
( 17 )
perknce he had found accompli/hed with fo Jingil*
lav blejjings of God, 45. yeares, as that no
Church upon the face of the Earth more flou-
rijhed, than this of England. But frf to fettle
uniform order through the whole Church. Se-
condly, to plant unity for the fupprefjing of Fa-
pifts and enemies to Religion. Thirdly, to amend
abufes, as natural to bodies politick, and corrupt
man, as the jhadow to the body, which once being
entred, hold on as wheels, his motion once fet go~
ing. And becaufe many grievous complaints had
been made to him, jince his firfl entrance into the
Land, he thought it beft to fend jor fome, whom
his Majefty underfiood to be the mofl grave,
learned and modefi of the agrieved fort, xvhom
being there prefent, he was now ready to hear at
large, what they could objeEt or fay ; And fo
willed them to begin : Whereupon they four
kneeling down, Dr. Reinolds the foreman, after
a fhort Preamble gratulatory, and -fignifying his
Majefties Summons, by vertue whereof, they
then and there appeared, reduced all matters
difliked, or queflioned, into thefe four heads,
1. That the Do&rine of the Church might
be preferved in purity according to Gods
Word.
€ Q. That
( IB )
g. That good Paftors might be planted in all
Churches to preach the fame.
3. That the Church government might be fin-
cerely miniftred, according to Gods Word.
A. That the Book of Common Prayer might
be fitted to more increafe of Piety.
I, For the firfl, he moved his Majefty, that
the Book of Articles of Religion, concluded,
1562. might be explained in places obfeure,
and enlarged where fome things were defeclive.
For example, whereas A&. 16. The words are
thefe : After we have received the holy Ghofty
we may depart from Grace: Notwithstanding, the
meaning be found, yet he defired that, becaufe
they may feem to be contrary to the Doctrine
of Gods Predeftination and election in the 17.
Article, both thofe words might be explained
with this, or the like addition, Yet neither to-
tally, nor finally ; and alfo that the nine afler-
tions Orthodoxal as he termed them, concluded
upon at Lambeth, might be inferted into that
Book of Articles.
&. Secondly, where it is faid in the 83 J Arti-
cle, that it is not lawful, for any man, to take
upon him the office of Preaching or adminiliring
the
( 19 )
the Sacraments, in the congregation, before he
he lawfully called, D. Rein, took exception to
thefe words, In the Congregation, as implying
a lawfulneffe for any man whatfoever, out of the
Congregation, to preach and adminifter the Sa~
craments ; though he had no lawful calling
thereunto.
3. Thirdly, in the 25. Article, thefe words
touching Confirmation, grown partly of the
corrupt following the Apoftles, being oppofite to
thofe in the Collect of Confirmation in the Com-
munion Book, upon whom after the example of
the Apoftles, argue, faith he, a contrariety
each to other ; the firft, confeffing Confirma-
tion, to be a depraved imitation of the Apof-
tles; the fecond, grounding it upon their ex-
ample, Acl. 8. and 9. as if the JBifhop in Con-
firming of children, did by his impofing of
hands, as the Apoftles in thofe places, give the
vifible graces of the holy Ghoft, and therefore
he defired that both the contradiction might be
confidered, and this ground of Confirmation
examined.
Thus farre Doctor Rein, went on without any
interruption : But, here, as he was proceeding,
the Bifhop of London, much moved to hear thefe
men? who fome of them the Evening before,
C 2 and
( 20 )
and the fame morning, had made femblance, of
joining with the Bifhops, and that they fought
for nothing but unity, now flrike to overthrow,
(if they could) all at once, cut him off, and
kneeling down, mofl humbly defired his Ma-
jefly, firft, That the ancient Canon might be
remembred, which faith, that Schifmatici contra
Epifcopos, non funt audiendi. Secondly, that
if any of thefe parties wrere in the number of
the thoufand Miniflers, who had once fub-
fcribed to the Communion Book, and yet had
lately exhibited a Petition to his Majefly,
againfl it, they might be removed and not
heard, according to the Decree of a very anci-
ent Councel, providing, that no man mould be
admitted to fpeak againfl that, whereto he had
formerly fubfcribed.
Thirdly, he put D. Reinolds and his Aflbci-
ates in minde, how much they were bound to
his Majefties exceeding great clemency, in that
they were permitted, contrary to the Statute,
1 Ellz. to fpeak fo freely againfl the Leiturgy
and Difcipline eftabliflied. Laflly, forafmuch
as that he perceived they took a courfe tending
to the utter overthrow of the orders of the
Church, thus long continued, he defired to
know the end which they aimed at, alleging a
j3*<*e out of Mafler Cartwright, affirming that
we
( 21 )
we ought rather to conform ourfelves m orders
and Ceremonies to the fafhion of the Turks,
than to the Papifts; which Pofition he doubted
they approved, becaufe, contrary to the orders
of the Univerfities, they appeared before his
Majefty in Turky gownes, not in their Schohfti-
cal habits, forting to their degrees.
His Majefty perceiving my Lord of London to
/peak in fome pqfjion, [aid, that there was in it
fomething which he might excufe, fomthing thai
he did rniflike : excufe his paffion he might, think-
ing he had juft caufe to be Jo moved, both in re-
fpecl, that they did thus traduce the prefent well
fetled Church Government ; and alfo, did proceed
in fo indirect a courfe, contrary to their own pre-
tence, and the intent of that meeting alfo : yet
he mi/liked his fudden interruption of D. Rein.
whom he Jhould have fuffered to have taken his
courfe mid liberty, concluding, that there is no
order, nor can be any effectual iffue of difputa-
tion, if each party might not be fuffered, with-
out chopping, to fpeak at large what he would.
And therefore willed that either the Doclors
Jhould proceed, or that the Bijhop would frame
his anfwer to thefe motions already made : al-
though, faith his Majefty, fome of them are very
needleffe : It was thought fitter to anfwer, left
C 3 the
( m )
the number of objections in creating, the anfwers
Would prove confufed.
Upon the firft motion, concerning falling
from Grace ; The Bifhop of London took occa-
fion to figmfie to his Majefty, how very many
in thefe daies, neglecting holiiieffe of life, pre-
fumed too much of perfifting of Grace, laying
all their Religion Upon Predeftination, If I mail
be faved, I mall be faved ; which he termed a
defperate Doctrine* mewing it to be contrary to
good Divinity, and the true doctrine of predef-
tination, wherein we mould reafon rather a fern-
dendo, than defcendendo, thus ; I live in obedi-
ence to God> in love with my neighbour, I
follow my vocation, 8$c. Therefore I truft that
God hath elected me, and predeftinated me to
Salvation : Not thus, which is the ufual courfe
of argument, God hath predeftinated and cho*
fen me to life, therefore though I fin never fo
grievoufly, yet I fhall not be damned : for
whom he once loveth, he loveth to the end.
Whereupon he mewed his Majefty out of the
next Article, what was the doclrine of the
Church of England, touching Predeftination, in
the very laft Paragraph, SciL We muft receive
Gods promifes, in fuch wife, as they be general-
ly fet forth to us in holy Scripture and in our do-
ings, that the will of God is to be followed, which
8 we
( 23 )
we have exprefly declared unto us in the word of
God : which part of the Article his Mqjejiy very
well approved, and after he had, after his man-
ner, very fingularly difcourfed on that place of
Paul, Work out your Salvation with fear and
trembling; he left it to be conjidered, whether
any thing were mete to be added, for the clearing
of the Doctor his doubt by putting in the word
often, or the like, as thus, We may often depart
from Grace ; but in the mean time, wifhed thai
the Doclrine of Predeflination might be very
tenderly handled, and zvith great difcreiion, left
on the one fide, Gods omnipotency might be called
in queftion, by impeaching the doclrine of his eter-
nal predeftination, or on the other, a defperate
prefumption might be arr eared, by inferring the
necefjary certainty of flanding, and perfijling in
grace.
To the fecond it was anfwered, that it was a
vain objection, becaufe, by the Doclrine and
practice of the Church of England, none, but a
licenced Minifter, might preach, nor either
publikely or privately adminiftered the Eucha-
rift, or the Lords Supper, And as for private
Baptifm, his Majefty anfwered, that he had ta-
ken order for that with the Bijhops already.
In the third point (which was about Confir-
C 4 aeration)
( £4 )
matton) was obferved either curiofity, or malice,
becaufe the Article which was there prefently
read, in thofe words; Thefe five commonly
called Sacraments, that is to fay, Confirmation,
Penance, Orders, $$c. are not to be accounted
for Sacraments of the Gofpel, being fuch as
have grown partly of the corrupt following the
Apoftles, S?c. Infinuateth, that the making of
Confirmation to be a Sacrament, is a corrupt
imitation ; but the Communion Book, aiming
at the right ufe, and proper courfe thereof,
make it to be according to the Apoftles exam-
ple ; which his Majefty obfervijig, and reading
both the places, concluded the objection to be
a meer cavil. And this was for the pretended
contradiction.
Now for the ground thereof, the Bilhop of
London added, that it was not fo much founded
upon the places in the Acts of the Apoftles,
which fome of the Fathers had often fhewed ;
but upon Heb. 6 2. Where it is made, as the
firft day he had faid, a part of the Apoftles Ca-
techifm ; which was the opinion, befides the
judgment of the holy Fathers, of Mafter C#/-
vin, and D. Fulke, the one upon Heb. 6. % as
upon Saturday he had declared ; the other upon
Acts* 8. verf. 27. where with S. Auguftine, he
faith that we do not, in any wife miflike that an-
tient
( ss )
tient Ceremonie (of impofition of hands, for
ftrengthning and confirming fuch as had been
Baptized,) but ufe it in ourfelves, being nothing
elfe, but as Saint Auften affirm eth, Prayer over
a man to be ftrengthened and confirmed by the
holy Ghoft : or to receive increafe of the gifts
of the holy Ghoft, as Saint Ambrofe faith ; and
a little after alludeth unto Heb. 6. % <§y\ Nei-
ther need there any great proof of this (faith my
Lord) For confirmation to be unlawful, it was
not their opinion, who objected this, as he fup-
pofed ; this was it that vexed them, that they
had not the ufe thereof in their own hands,
every Paftor in his Parifh to confirm, for then it
would be accounted an Apoftolical inftitution ;
and willed Doctor Rein, to fpeak herein what he
thought : who feemed to yeild thereunto, re-
plying that fome Dioceffe of a Bifhop, having
therein fix hundred Parifh Churches (which
number caufed the Bifhop of London to think
himfelfperfonally touched, becaufe inhisDiocevTe
there are 609, or there abouts) it was a thing
very inconvenient to commit confirmation unto
the Bifhop alone, fuppofing it impoffible that he
could take due examination of them all, which
came to be confirmed. To the fac~r, my Lord
of London anfwered, for his Majefties informa-
tion, that the Bifhops in their Vi fi tat ions, give
out notice to them, who are dellrous either to
be
( 26 )
be themfelves or to have their children con-
firmed, of the place where they will be; and
appoint either their Chaplaines, or foine other
Ministers, to examine them which are to be
confirmed, and lightly confirm none, but either
by the teftimony, or report of the Parfons or
Curates where the children are bred, and
brought up. To the opinion he replied, that
none of ail the Fathers ever admited any to con-
firm but Bifhops alone ; yea even Saint Jerome
himfelf, though otherwife no friend to Bifhops,
by reafon of a quarrel betwen the Biihop of Jt-
rufalem and him, }Tet confeffeth, that the execu-
tion thereof was retrained to Biihops only, Ad
Jionorem potius Sacerdotii, quam ad legis neceffita-
tem. V/hereof, namely of this Prerogative of
Biihops, he giveth this Reafon, Ecclejice falus in
fummi Sacerdotis dig nit ate pendii ; cut Ji non
exors qu&dam 8$ ah omnibus emmens detur po-
iejias, tot in Ecclejiis efficerentur fcifmata, quot
Sacerdotes. My Lord Biihop of JVincheJier
chalenged Doctor Reynolds, willing him, of his
learning, to fhew where ever he had read, that
Confirmation was at all ufed in ancient times by
any other but Bifhops ; and added withal), that
it was ufed, partly to examine Children, and
after examination, by impofition of hands
(which was a Ceremonie of bleffing among the
Jexvs) to bleffe them and pray over them : and
partly
( 27 )
partly to try whether they had been Baptized in
the right form or no. For in former ages Bap-
tifm was adminiftred in divers forts : fome save
it, In nomine patris 8§ filii, fyc. Others, In
nomine pat?is majoris, &f filii minoris, as the Ar-
rians did ; fome, In nomine patris per filiian, in
fpiritu fanBo ; Others not in the name of the
Trinity, but in the death of Chrift, 8$c. Where-
upon the Catholick Bifhops were conftrained to
examin them who were Baptized in remotis, far
from them, how they were taught to believe,
concerning Baptifm ; If it were right, to con-
firm them ; if amiife, to inftrucl; them.
His Majefty concluded this point, firft by
taxing Saint Jerome for his aiTertion, that a Bi-
fhop was not Divince ordinationis (the Biihop of
London thereupon, inferring, that unlelTe he
could prove his ordination lawful out of the
Scriptures, he would not be a Biihop 4 hours)
Which opinion his Majefty much diftqfted, ap-
proving their calling and ufe in the Church, and
clofed it up with this Jhort Aphorifm, No Bifliop,
no King. Secondly, for Confirmation, his High-
neffe thought, that it forted neither with the au-
thority* nor decency of the fame, that every ordi-
nary Pqftor fiiould do it : and therefore faid,
that for his part, he meant not to take that from
the Bifhops \ which they had fo long retained and
injoyed;
( M )
injoyed; feeing as it plea fed him to addc, as great
reafon, that none Jhould confirm without the
Bijhops licence, as none JJiould preach without his
licence, <§* fo referring, as the day before, the
word Examination, to be added to the Rubrich in
the title of Confirmation in the Communion Booh,
if it were thought good fo to do ; he willed Doctor
Rein, to proceed.
Who after that he had deprecated the impu-
tation of Schifm, with a proteftation, that he
meant not to gall any man ; goeth on to the
37. Article, wherein he faid thefe words, The
Bifhep of Rome hath no authority in this Land,
not to be furncient, unlefTe it were added, nor
ought to have. Whereat his Majefty heartily
laughed, and fo did the Lords : the King add-
ing an anfwer, which the Rhetoricians call,
lytoTipa eXe^x?**' i ^'hat fpeak you of the Popes
Authority here? Hab emus jure quod hah emus ;
And therefore, in as much as it is faid, he hath
not, is is plain enough, that he ought not to
hare.
This, and fome other motions, feeming to
the King and Lords very frivolous, occafion was
taken, in fome by-talk, to remember a certain
defcription, which Mafter Butler of Cambridge
made of a Puritan, viz. A Puritan is a Protef-
tant
( 29 )
tant frayed out of his wits. But my Lord of
London, there ferioufly put his Majefty in mind
of the fpeeches, which the French EmbatTadour
M after Rogne gave out concerning our Church
of England, both at Canterbury after his arrival,
and after at the Court, upon the view of our fo*
lemn Service and Ceremonies ; namely, that if
the reformed Churches in France had kept the
fame Orders among them which we have, he
was affured that there would have been many
thoufands of Proteftants more there, than now
there are ; and yet our men ftumble and {train
at thefe petty quillets, thereby to difturb and
difgrace the whole Church.
5. After this, the Doctor moved that this
proportion, The intention of the Minifrer is
not of the Eifence of the Sacrament, might be
added unto the Book of Articles, the rather,
becaufe that fome in England had preached it
to be etfential. And here again he remembred
the nine Orthodoxal aftertions concluded at Lam-
beth. His Majefty utterly difliked that jirji
part of the motion for tzvo reafons : Firft, think-
ing it unfit to thrift into the Book every pofttion
negative, which would both make the Book [well
into a Volume as big as the Bible, and alfo con-
found the Reader : bringing for example the
courfe of one Mafter Craig in the like cafe in
Scotland,
( 30 )
Scotland, who with his, I renounce and abhdr,
his deteftations and abrenuncaiions, did fo amaze
the Jimple people, that they, not able to conceive
all thofe things, utterly gave over all, falling
back to Popery, or remaining JIM in their former
ignorance. Yea, if I, faid his Majefty, Jhould
have been bound to his form, the confejfion of my
faith mufi have been in my Table-Book, not in my
head. But becaufe you fpeak of Intention, faith
his Highneffe, I will apply it thus. If you come
hither zvith a good intention, to be informed, and far
tisfi ed where you JJiall find juft caufe, the whole work
will fort to the better effect ; But if your inten-
tion be to go as you came (whatfoever Jhall be
faid) it will prove that the Intention is very ma-
terial, and effential to the end of this prefent
a8io?z. To the other part for the nine Affer-
tions, his Majefty could not fuddenly anfwer,
becaufe he underftood not what the Doctor
meant by thofe Aflertions or proportions at
Lambeth ; but when it was informed his Ma-
jefty, that by reafon of fome controverfies, arif-
ing in Cambridge, about certain points of Divi-
nity, my Lords Grace aiTem bled fome Divines of
efpecial note, to fet down their opinions, which
they drew into nine Aflertions, and fo fent them
to the Univerfity, for the appearing of thofe
quarrels; then his Majefty anfwered ; Firfi,
that when fuch queftions arife amopg Scholars,
the
( 31 )
the quieted proceeding were, to determine them
in the Univerflties, and not to fluff the Book with,
all conclufions Theological. Secondly, the bet-
ter courfe would be to punifh the broachers of
falfe Doctrine, as occafion fhould be offered :
for were the Articles never fo many and found,
who can prevent the contrary opinions of men
till they be heard ?
Upon this the Dean of Paules kneeling down,
humbly defired leave to fpeak, fignifying unto
his Majefly, that this matter fomewhat more
nearly concerned him, by reafon of a contro-
verfie between him and fome other in Cambridge*
upon a proportion, which he had deliverd
there ; Namely, that whofoever (although before
juflifled) did commit any grievous fin, as Adul-
tery, Murder, Treafon, or the like, did be-
come, ipfo fa8o, fubject to Gods wrath, and
guilty of damnation, or were in flate of damna-
nation (quoad pr&fentem Jiatum) until! they re-
pented; adding hereunto, that thofe which
were called or juftified according to the purpofe
of Gods Election, howfoever they might, & did
fomtimes fall into grievous fins, and thereby into
the prefent flate of wrath and damnation ; yet
did never fall, either totally from all the Graces
of God to be utterly deflitute of all the parts
and feed thereof, nor finally from justification,
but
( 32 )
but were in time renewed by Gods Spirit unto a
lively Faith, and Repentance ; and fo juflified
from thofe fins, and the wrath, curfe and guilt
annexed thereunto, whereinto they are fallen,
and wherein they lay, fo long as they were
without true repentance for the fame. Againfi
which Doctrine, he faid, that fome had oppo-
fed, teaching, that all fuch perfons as were
once truely juftified, though after they fell into
never fo grievous fins, yet remained flilljuft, or
in the ftate of juflification, before they actually
repented of thofe fins ; yea, and though they
never repented of them, through forgetfulneffe
or fudden death, yet they mould be juftified and
faved wihout repentance. In utter diflike of
this Doclrine, his Majefty entred into a longer
fpeech of Predeftination, and reprobation, than
before, and of the neceffary conjoyning repentance
and holinejfe of life with true faith : concluding,
that it was hypocrifie, and not true juftifying
faith, which was fevered from them : jor al-
though Predejiination and Election depend not
upon any qualities, actions, or works of man,
which be mutable, but upon God his eternal and
immutable decree and purpofe; yet fuch is the ne-
ceffity of repentance, after known Jins committed,
as that*, without it, there could not be, either
reconciliation with God, or remij/ion of thofe
fins.
$ Next
( 33 )
Next to this, Doctor Remolds complained,
that the Catechifm in the Common Prayer
Book, was too brief, for which one by Mafler
Nozvel late Dean of Pauls was added, and that
too long for young Novices to learn by heart :
requefted therefore, that one uniform Catechifm
might be made, which, and none other, might
be generally received ; it was demanded of him,
whether if, to the fhort Catechifm in the Gom-
munion Book, fomething were added for the
Doctrine of the Sacrament, it would not ferve ?
His Majefty thought the Doctors requeft very
reafonable : But yet fo, that he would have a
Catechifm in the fewejl and plaineji affirmative
terms that may be : taxing withal the number of
ignorant Catechifms fet out in Scotland, by every
one that was the Sen of a good man : infomuch9
as that which was Catechifm Doctrine in one Con~
gregation, was in another fcarcely accepted as
found and Orthodox, wijhed therefore, one to be
made and agreed upon, adding this excellent^
gnomical and Canon-like Conclufion, that in re-
forming of a Church, he would have two rules
obferved. Firjl, that old, curious, deep and in-
tricate quefiions might be avoided, in the Funda-
mental injlruStion of a people. Secondly, that
there Jhould not be any fuch departure from the
Papifa in all things, as that becaufe we in fome
D points
( 34 )
points agree with them, therefore wejhould be ac-
counted to be in error.
To the former, Doclor Remolds did adde the
prophanation of the Sabbath day, and contempt
of his Majeflies Proclamation, made for the re-
forming of that abufe, of which he earneftly de-
fired a ftraighter courfe for reformation thereof,
and unto this he found a general and unanimous
affent.
7. After that, he moved his Majefty, that
there might be a new Tranflation of the Bible,
becaufe, thofe which wrere allowed in the Reign
of King Henry the Eight, and Edward the fixt,
were corrupt, and not anfwerable to the truth
of the Original. For example, firft, Galatians
4. 25. the Greek word a-vroix^ is not well trans-
lated, as now it is ; Bordereth, neither expref-
fmg the force of the word, nor the Apoftles fence,
nor the Situation of the place.
Secondly, Pfalm 105. 28. They were not
obedient ; The original being, They were not
difobedient.
Thirdly, Pfalm 106. vcrfe 30. Then flood
up Phinees and prayed, the Hebrew hath, Ex-
ecuted judgment. To which motion, there
was, at the prefent, no gainfaying, the objec-
tions
( 35 )
tions being trivial, and old, and already in
print, often anfwered; only my Lord of London
well added, that if every mans humour fhould
be followed, there would be no end of tranlla-
ting. Whereupon his Highneffe wijhed, that
fome fpecial paines fhould be taken in that behalf
for one uniform translation (profeffmg that he
could never, yet, fee a Bible well tranjlated in
Englifh, but the worji of all his Mqjejly thought
the Geneva to be) and this to be done by the beji
learned in both the Utiiverjities, after them to be
reviewed by the Bijhops, and the chief learned of
the Church ; from them to be prefented to the
Privy Councel ; and laftly, to be ratified by his
Royal Authority. And jo this whole Church to
be bound unto it, and none other, Mary$
withall, he gave this caveat (upon a word cafi
out by my Lord of London) that no Marginal
Notes Jhould be added, having found in them
which are annexed to the Geneva tranjlation
(which he faw in a Bible given him by an Englifh
Lady) fome Notes very partial, untrue, feditious,
and favouring too much of dangerous, and trai-
terous conceits. As for example, the firft Chap-
ter of Exodus and the nineteenth Verfe, where the
Marginal Note alloweth Difobedience unto Kings.
And % Chro. 15, 16. the note taxeth A&'for
depqfing his Mother, only, and not killing her :
And fo cojtcludeth this point as all the reft, with
a grave and judicious advice. Firft, that errors
J) % in
( 36 )
in matters of Faith might be re&ified and
amended. Secondly, that matters indifferent
might rather be interpreted, and a gloffe added;
alleging from Bartolus de regno, that, as better
a King with fome xceakneffe, than fill a change ;
fo rather a Church with fome faults, than an In*
novation. And furely, faith his Majefty, if
thefe be the greateft matters you be grieved with,
I ?ieed not have been troubled with fuch importu-
nities 8f complaints, as have been made unto me ;
fome other more private courfe might have been
taken for your fatisfa&ion, and withall, looking
upon the Lords, hefhook his head, /hilling.
8. The lafl point (noted by Doctor Reinolds)
in this firft head, for Doctrine, was, that un-
lawful and feditious Books might be fuppreffed,
at leaft reflrained, and imparted to a few : for
by the liberty of publifhing fuch Books, fo com-
monly, many young Scholars and unfetled
minds in both Univerfities, and through the
"whole Realm, were corrupted and perverted ;
naming for one inftance, that Book entitled,
De jure Magiftratus in Subditos, published of
late by Ficleruc a Papift, and applied againft the
Queens Majefty that lafl was, for the Pope :
The Bimop of London fuppofing, as it feemed,
himfelf to be principally aimed at, anfwered,
firft, to the general, that there was no fuch li-
centious divulging of thofe Books, as he imagin-
1 ed,
( 3? )
ed, or complained of, and that none, except
it were fuch as Doctor Rein, who were fuppofed,
would confute them, had liberty by authority to
buy them: Again, fuch Books came into the
Realm, by many fecret conveiances, fo that
there could not be a perfect notice had of their
importation : Secondly, to the particular in-
dance of Ficlerus, he faid, that the Author De
jure, §€. was a great Difciplinarian ; whereby
it did appear, what advantage that fort gav€
unto the Papifts, who mutatis perfonis, could
apply their own Arguments againfl Princes of
the Religion : but for his own part he faid, he
detefted both the Author, and the Applier alike.
My Lord Cicill here taxing alfo the unlimited
liberty of the difperfmg and divulging thefe Po-
pifh. and feditioois Pamphlets, both in Pauls
Church-yard, and the Univerfities, inflanced
one lately fet forth, and published; namely,
Speculum Tragicum, which both his Majefty and
the Lord H. Howard, now Earl of Northampton,
termed a dangerous Book both for matter and
intention : and the Lord Chancellor, alfo divid-
ing all fuch Books into Latine and Englijk,
concluded, that thefe lad, difperfed, did mod
harm : yet the Lord Secretaire affirmed, that
my Lord of London had dene therein what
might be, for the fuppreffing of them ; and that
he knew no man elfe, had done any thing iu
D 3 that
( 3B )
that kind but he. At length, it pleafed his ex-
cellent Majefty, to tell Doclor Rein, that he. was
a better College-man than a States man ; for if
Ms meaning were, to tax the Bijhop of London,
for fuffering thofe books, betxveen the Secular
Prieft, and Jefuites, lately publijhed, fo freely to
to paffe abroad ; His Majefty would have him and
Ms Affociates to know, and willed them alfo to ac-
quaint their Adherents and Friends abroad there-
with, that the [aid BiJJiop zvas much injured and
flandered in that behalf, who did nothing therein,
but by warrant from the Lords of the Councel,
whereby, both a Schifm between them was nou-
rifhed, and alfo his Majejlies own caufe and
Title handled : The Lord Cicil affirming there-
unto, that therefore they were tolerated, be-
caufe, in them, was the Title of Spain confu-
ted.
The Lord Treafurer added, that Doctor Rei-
nolds might have obferved another ufe of thofe
Bookes, viz. that now by the teflimony of thofe
Priefts themfelves, her late Majefty and the
gtate were cleared of that imputation, of put-
ting Papifls to death for their confciences only,
and for their Religion, feeing, in thofe Books,
they themfelves confefs, that they were execu-
ted for Treafon. Doclor Reinolds excufed him-
|fclf; expounding his complaint, not meant of
fuch
( 89 )
fuch Books, as had been printed in England,
but fuch as came from beyond the Seas, as
Commentaries both in Philofophy and Divinity.
And thefe were the parts of the firil head, con-
cerning Purity of Doctrine.
™ i • ^ « C Refident,
louchinff Paitors < T^ i
& ( Learned,
To the fecond general point concerning the
planting of Minifters learned iii every Parifli :
It pleafed his Majefty to an fiver, that he had con-
Jalted with his Bifhops about that, whom he found
willing and ready, to fecond him in it : inveigh-
ing herein, againji the negligence and carelefneffe,
which he heard of many in this land; but, as
Subita evacuatio, was periculofa, fo fubita mu-
tatio. Therefore this matter was not for a pre-
fent refolution, becaufe to appoint to every Parifh
a fufficient Minijter were impqffible, the U?iwerji-
ties would not afford them. Again, he had
found already, that he had more learned men in
this Realm, than he had fufficient maintenance
for ; So that maintenance mvft firft be provided,
and then the other to be required i In the mean
time, ignorant Minifters, if young, to be remo-
ved, if there were no hope of their amendment ;
if old, their death muji be expected, that the next
D 4 courfc
( 40 )
courfc may be better fupplied : And fo concluded
this point, with a moil Religious and Zealous
proteftation, of doing fomething dayly in this
cafe, becaufe Jerufalem could not be built up in
a day. The Bifhop of JVinchejier made known
to the King, that this infufficiency of the
Clergy, be it as it is, comes not by the Biihops
defaults, but partly by Lay Patrons, who pre-
fent very mean men to their cures; whereof,
in himfelf, he fhewed an inftance, how that
fince his being Bifhop of JVinchejier, very few
Mailers of Arts were prefented to good Bene-
fices ; partly, by the Law of the land, which
admitteth of a very mean tolerable fufficiency
in any Clerk, fo that if the Bifhop iliould not
admit them, then prefently, a Quare impedit is
fent out againft him.
Here my Lord of London, kneeling, humbly
defired his Majefty (becaufe he faw, as he faid,
it was a time of moving Petitions) that he might
have leave, to make two or three,
Firft, that there might be amongft us, a
Praying Miniftery another while ; for whereas,
there are, in the Miniftery, many excellent du-
ties to be performed, as the abfolving of the pe-
nitent, praying for, and bleffing of the people,
adminiftring of the Sacraments, and the like ;
it
( 41 )
it 13 come to that paffe now, that fome fort of
men thought it the only duty required of a Mi-
nifter, to fpend the time in fpeaking out of a
Pulpit ; fometimes, God wot, very undifcreetly,
and unlearnedly : and this, with fo great injury
and prejudice, to the celebration of Divine fer-
vice, that fome Minifters would be content to
walk in the Church-yard, till Sermon time, ra-
ther than to be prefent at publick prayer. He
confevTed, that in a Church new to be planted,
preaching was moft necefTary ; but among us,
now long eftabliihed in the faith, he thought it
not the only necefTary duty to be performed,
and the other to be fo profanely neglected
and contemned. Which motion his Majefty
liked exceeding well, very acutely taxing the hy-
pocrijie of our times, which place th all Religion in
the ear, through which, there is an eafy paffage,
but Prayer, which expreffeth the hearts affection,
and is the true devotion of the mind, as a matter
putting us to overmuch trouble (xvherein there
concurre, if Prayer be as it ought, an impartial
confideration for our own efiates, a due examina-
tion to xvhom we pray, an humble confefjion of
our fins, with an hearty for row for them; and
repentance not fevered from Faith) is accounted
and ufed as the leaft part of Religion.
The feconcl was, that till fuch time as learned
and
( 42 )
and fufficient men might be planted in every
Congregation, that Godly Homilies might be
read, and the number of them increafed, and
that the Opponents would labour to bring them
into credit again, as formerly they brought
them into contempt. Every Man (faith
he) that can pronounce well, cannot indite
well.
The Kings Majefty approved this motion, efpe-
dally, where the living is not fufficiait for main-
tenance of a learned Preacher ; as alfo in places,
where plenty of Sermons are, as in the City, and
great Townes. In the Countrey villages where
Preachers are not near together, he could wijh
Preaching ; but where there are a multitude of
Sermons, there he would have Homilies to be read
divers times : And therein he ajked the affent of
the Plaintiff's, and they confefe it. A preaching
Minijtery, faith his Majefty, was bef, but where
it might not be had, Godly prayers and exhorta-
tions did much good. That that may be done, let
it, and let the reft that cannot, be tolerated.
Somewhat was here fpoken by the Lord Chan-
cellor, of livings rather wanting learned Men,
than learned Men livings. Many in the Univer-
fities pining, Mafters, Batchelors, and up-
wards: wiihing therefore, that fome might
have fmgle coats, before other had dublets, and
here
( ^3 )
here his Lordfliip fhewed the courfe, that he
had ever taken, in bellowing the Kings Bene-
fices ; my Lord of London, commending his
Honourable care that way, withall excepted that
a dublet was neceiTary in cold weather : the
Lord Chancellor replied, that he did it not for
diflike of the liberty of our Church, in granting
one Man two Benefices, but out of his own pri-
vate purpofe and practice, grounded upon the
fprefaid reafon.
The lad motion, by my Lord of London was,
that Pulpits, might not be made pafquils,
wherein every humorous, or difcontented fellow
might traduce his fuperiors. Which the King
very gracioufy accepted, exceedingly reproving
that, as a lewd cuftome ; threatning, that if he
Jhould hut hear of fuch a one in a Pulpit, he
would make him an example : concluding xvith a
/age admonition to the opponents, that every Man
Jliould folicite <§■ draw his friends to make peace,
and if any thing were amiffe in the Church offi-
cers, not to make the Pulpit the place of perfonal
reproof, but to let his Majefty hear of it : yet by
degrees.
Firft, let complaint be to the Ordinary of the
place, from him to go to the Arch-BiJJiop ; from
him, to the Lords of his Majejiies Counfel, and
from
( 4* )
from them, if in all thefe places no remedy is
found, to his own felf. Which caveat his Ma-
jefty put in, for that the Bifhop of London had
told him, that if he left himielf open to admit
of all complaints, neither his Majefty mould
ever be quiet, nor his under-officers regarded :
feeing, that now already no fault can be cen-
fured, but prefently the Delinquent threatneth
a complaint to the King : and for an inftance,
he added, how a Printer, whom he had taken
faulty, very lately anfwered him in that very
kind.
Doctor Rein, commeth now to Subfcription,
(which concerneth the fourth general head, as
he firft propounded it, namely, The Communion
Book)) taking occafion to leap into it here, as
making the urging of it to be a great impeach-
ment to a learned Miniftery, and therefore in-
treated, it might not be exacted as heretofore,
for which many good Men were kept out, other
removed, and many difquieted. To fubfcribe
according to the ftatutes of the Realm, namely,
to the Articles of Religion, and the Kings Su-
premacy, they were not unwilling. The reafon
of their backwardneffe to fubfcribe otherwife
was, firft the Books Apocrypal ; which the
Common- Prayer Book injoyned to be read in the
Church, albeit, there are, in fome of thofe
Chapters
( 45 )
Chaffers appointed, manifeft errors, diredlly re-
pugnant to the Scriptures : the particular in-
ftance, which he then inferred, was, Eccljf.
43. 10, where he charged the Author of that
Book, to have held the fame opinion with the
Jewes at this day, namely, that Elias, in per-
fon, was to come before Chrift, and therefore,
as yet, Chrift, by that Reafon, not come in the
flefh ; and fo, confequently, it implied a denial
of the chief Article of our redemption ; his Rea-
fon of thus charging the Author, was, becaufe
that Ecclus ufed the very word of Elias, in per-
fori, which the Prophet Malachy, Cap. 4. doth
apply to an Ellas in refemblance, which both
an Angel, Luke. 1. and our Saviour Chrift,
Mat. 11. did interpret to be John Baptijh The
anfwer was, as the objection, twofold. Firft,
general, for Apocrypha Books ; The Bifhop of
London ihewing, firft, for the antiquity of them,
that the moll of the objections made againft
thofe Books were the old Cavils of the Jewes,
renewed by Saint Jerome in his time, who was
the firft that gave them the name of Apocrypha9
which opinion, upon Ruffinus, his challenge,
he, after a fort, difclaimed, the rather, becaufe
a general offence was taken at his fpeeches in
that kind, firft, for the continuance of them in
the Church out of Kimedoncius, and Chsmni-
tius, two modern writers
The
( 46 )
The Bilhop of Winton remembred the diftinc*
tion of Saint Jerome, Canonici funt ad informan-
dos mores, non ad confirmandam fidem, which
distinction he faid, muft be held for the juilify-
ing of fundry Councels. His Majefty in the end,
faid, he would take an even order between both,
affirming, that he would not wifh all Canonical
Books to be read in the Church, unlejfe, there
were one to interpret, nor any Apocrypha at all,
wherein there was any error, but for the other,
which were clear, and correfpondent to the Scrip-
tures, he would have them read, for elfe, faith
his JSIajefty, why were they printed? And
therein Jhewed the ufe of the books of Machabees,
very good to make up the Jlory of the perfecution
of the Jewes ; but not to teach a man either to
Sacrifizefor the dead, or to kill himfelf
And here his Highneffe arofe from his chair,
& withdrew himfelf into his inner chamber a
little fpace, in the mean time a great queftion-
ing was amongft the Lords, about that place of
Eccluf with which, as if it had been their reft
and upfhot, they began afrem, at his Majefties
return ; J¥ho,fee'mg them fo to urge it, andftand
upon it, calling for a Bible, firft Jhewed the Au-
thor of that book, zvho he was, then the Caufe
why he wrote that Book, next analyzed the Chap-
ter it felf, Jhewing the precedents and confequents
thereof ;
( 47 )
thereof; lajtly, fo exactly and Divine like, un-
folded the jumme of that place, arguing, and de~
monft "rating, that whatfoever Ben Sirach had /aid
there of Elias, Elias had in his ownperfon, while
he lived, performed and accompl'ijhed, fo that the
Sufurrus, at the firft mention, was not fo great y
as the aftonijhnent was nozv at the King his fud-
den and found, and indeed, fo admirable an inter-
pretation ; concluding, firft, with a ferioas check
to Doctor Remolds, that it was not good to im-
pofe upon a Man, that xvas dead, a fenfe never
meant by him : Secondly, with a pleafant Apof-
trophe to the Lords ; What, trow ye, make thefe
Men fo angry with Ecclefiafticus ? By my Soul,
I think he was a Bifliop, or elfe they would never
ufe him fo. But for the general, it was appointed
by his Majefty, that Doctor Rein, fihould note
thofe Chapters in the Apocrypha books, where
thofe ofifenfrce places were, and Jhould bring them
unto the Lord Arch-Bimop of Canterb. againjl
Wednefday next ; and fo he xvas willing to go on.
The next Scruple againft Subfcription was,
that old Crambe his pojita, that in the common
Prayer Book, it is twice fet down, Jefus faid to
his Difciples ; when as by the original text it is
plain, that he /pake to the Pharifees. To which
it was anfwered, that for ought that could ap-
pear by the places, he might fpeak as well to
his
( 48 )
his Difciples, they being prefent, as to the Pha-
rifees. But his Majefty keeping an even hand,
willed that the word Difciples ihould be omitted,
and the words Jefus /aid, to be printed in a dif-
ferent letter, that might appear, not to be a
part of the Text.
The third objection againft Subfcription, were
Interogatorks in Baptifm, propounded to In-
fants, which being a profound point, was put
upon Mafter Knewfiubs to purfue: who in a
long and perplexed fpeech, faid fomething out
of Auften, that Baptizare was credere, but what
it was, his Majefty plainly confeffed, Ego non
intelligo, and afked the Lords what they
thought he meant? it feemed that one prefent
conceived him, for he {landing at his back,
bad him urge the puncl, urge that punc~r, that
is a good point. My Lord of Winton aiming at
his meaning, mewed him the ufe thereof out of
Saint Anjlen, and added the Fathers reafon for it,
Qui peccavit in altera, credat in altero ; which
was feconded by his Majefty (whom it pleafed,
for the reft of the matters which followed, him-
felf alone to anfwer, and juftly might he appro-
priate it to himfelf, for none prefent were able
with quicker conceit to underftand, with a more
fingular dexterity to refute, with a more judi-
cious refolution to determine than his Majejly i
herein
( 49 )
herein being more admirable, that thefe points,
wherein fome thought him prejudicial to the
contrary, all of us fuppofed him to have been
but a ftranger to them, he could fo intelligently
apprehend, and fo readily argue about them,)
it was, I fay, feconded by his Majefty ; firft.
By Reafon that the queftion mould be pro-
pounded to the party whom it principally con-
cerned.
Secondly, by example of himfelf to whom in-
terrogatories were propounded when he was
crowned in his Infancy, King of Scotland.
And here his Majefty, (as hereafter at the end
of every objection he did) afked them whether
they had any more to fay.
Mafler Knewfiuhs took exceptions to the
Crofs in Baptifm, being in number two.
Firft, the offence of weak brethren, grounded
upon the words of Saint Paul, Rom. 14. and 1
Cor. 8. viz. The confciences of the Weak, not
to be offended : which places his excellent Majefty
anfwered mod accutely, beginning with that
general rule of the Fathers : Diftingue tempora,
8$ concordabunt Scriptures. Shewing here the
difference of thofe times and ours, then a Church
E not
( 50 )
not fully planted, nor fetled, but ours long efta-
blijhed and fiourijhing ; then Chrijtians newly
called from Paganifm, and not throughly grounded,
which is not the cafe of this Church, feeing that
Heathenijh Doctrine, for many years, hath been
hence abandoned.
Secondly, with a quejiion unanfwerable, a/king
them how long they would be weak ? whether 45
yeares were not fufficient for them to groxv
flrong ? Thirdly, who they were pretended this
weaknejje : For we, faith the King, require not
now fubfcription of Laiks and Idiots, but Preach-
ers end Minifters, who are not ft ill, I trow, to
he fed with milk, but are enabled to feed othei^s.
Fourthly, that it was to be doubted, fome of
them were Jirong enough, if not headftrong, and
howfoever they in this cafe pretended weaknefs,
yet fome, in who fe behalf they now fpake, thought
themfeltes able to teach him, and all the Bijhops
of the Land.
His objection againft the Crofs, confifted of
three Interrogatories ; Firfr, whether the Church
had power to inftitute an external fignificant
fign ? to which was replied ; firft, that he mif-
took the ufe of the Croffe with us, which was
not
( 51 )
not ufed in Baptifm, any otherwife than only as
ceremony.
Secondly, by their own example, who make
imposition of hands in their ordination of Paf-
tors, to be a fign fignificant.
Thirdly, in prayer, faith the Biihop of Win-
ton, the kneeling on the ground, the lifting up
of our hands, the knocking of our breafts, are
Ceremonies fignificant ; The firft, of our humi-
lity coming before the mighty God; The fe-
cond, of our confidence and hope ; the other,
of our forrow and deteflation of our fins, and
thefe are, and may lawfully be ufed. Laftly,
M. Dean of the Chapel remembred the practife
of the Jews, who unto the inftitution of the Paf-
feover, prefcribed unto them by Mofes, had, as
the Rabbins witneffe, added both fignes and
words, eating fowre herbs, and drinking wine,
with thefe words, to both, Take and eat thefe
in remembrance, &;c. Drink this in remem-
brance, <$c. Upon which addition and tradi-
tion of theirs, our Saviour inftituted the Sacra-
ment of his laft Supper, in celebrating it with
the fame words, and after the fame manner ;
thereby approving that fact of theirs in par-
ticular, and generally, that a Church may
inftitute and retain a figne fignificant : which
fatisfied his Majefty exceeding well.
E g And
( 52 )
And here the King defer ed to have himfelf made
acquainted about the antiquity of the ufe of the
CroJJe, which Doctor Reynolds confeffed to have
been ever fince the Apoftles times ; but this was
the difficulty, to prove it of that ancient ufe in
Baptifm. For that at their going abroad, or
entering into the Church, or at their prayers and
benedictions, it was ufed by the Ancients, de-
fired no great proof: But whether in Baptifm,
Antiquity approved it, was the doubt caft in by
M. Deane of Sarum, whom his Majefty fingled
out, with a fpecial Encomion, that he was a
man well travelled in the Ancients : which
doubt was anfwered, obfgnatis tabulis, by the
Dean of JVejlminfkr, (whom the Kings Ma-
jefty, upon my Lord of Londons motion, willed
to fpeak to that point) out of TertulUati, Cy-
prian, Origen, and others, that it was ufed in
Immortali laroacro : which words being a little de=
fcanted, it fell from one, I think it was my Lord
of Winchefter, obiter, to fay, that in Confan-
tine his time, it was ufed in Baptifm. What
quoth the King, and is it now come to that pafje,
that weftiall appeach Conftantine of Popery, and
fuperftition ? if then it were ufed, faith his Majef-
ty, I fee no reafon, but that fill we may continue it.
Mafter Knmftubs his fecond queftion was,
that put cafe, the Church had fuch power to
adde
( 53 )
adde fignificant fignes, whether it might there
adde them, where Chrift had already ordained
one ; which he faid was no lefTe derogatory, to
Chrifts inftitution, as he thought, than if any
Potentate of this Land, fhould prefume to adde
his Seal to the great Seal of England. To which
his Mqjejiy anfwered, that the cafe was not alike,
for that no fign or thing was added to the Sacra-
ment, which was fully and perfectly finiflied, be-
fore any mention of the Crqffe is made, for confir-
mation 'whereof he willed the place to be read,
Laftly, if the Church had that power alfo,
yet the greateft Scruple to their Confcience was,
how farre fuch an ordinance of the Church was
to bind them, without impeaching their Chrif-
tian Liberty ? Whereat, the King, as it feemed,
was much moved, and told him, he would not ar-
gue that point with him, but anfwer therein, as
Kings are wont to [peak in Parliament, Le Roy
s'avifera, adding withall, that it fuelled very
rankly of Anabaptifm : comparing it unto the
ufage of a beardleffe boy, (one Mafier John
Black) who the laft Conference his Majefty had
with the Minifters in Scotland, (in December,
1602 .) told him, that he would hold conformity
with his Majejlies ordinances, for matters of doc-
trine ; but for matters of Ceremonie, they were
to be left in Chriftian Liberty to every man, as he
E 3 received
( 54 )
received more and more light, jrom the illumina-
tion of Gods fpirit, even till they go mad, quoth
the King, with their oxvn light : but I will none
of that ; I will have one doctrine, and one dif-
cipline, one Religion in fubfiance, and in ce-
remony : and therefore I charge you never to
[peak more to that point, (how far you are bound
to obey ?) when the Church hath ordained it.
And fo ajked them again, if they had any thing
elfe to fay.
Doctor Reynolds objected the example of the
Brafen Serpent, demolished and llampt to pow-
der by Ezechias, becaufe the people abufed it to
Idolatry, wiming that in like fort, the Crofs
fhould be abandoned, becaufe in the time of
Popery, it had been fuperfritiouily abufed.
Whereunto the Kings Majefty anfwered divers
Avayes. Firft, quoth he, though I be fuffici-
ently perfwaded of the Crofs in Baptifm, and
the commendable ufe thereof in the Church fo
long; yet, if there were nothing elfe to move
me, this very argument were an inducement to
me, for the retaining of it, as it is now by order
efiabliihed : For inafmuch, as it was abufed, So
you fay, to fuperftition, in time of Popery, it
doth plainly imply, that it was well ufed before
Popery. I will tell you, I have lived among this
fort of men, (fpeaking to the Lords and Bi-
fhops,)
( 55 )
mops,) ever fince I was tenne years old, but I
may fay of myfelf, as Chrift did of himfelf,
Though I lived amongft them, yet fince I had
ability to judge, I was never of them ; neither
did any thing make me more to condemn, and
deteft their courfes, than that they did fo pe-
remptorily difallow of all things, which at all had
been ufed in Popery. For my part, I know not
how to anfwer the objection of the Papifts,
when they charge us with Novelties : but truely
to tell them, that their abufes are New, but the
things which they abufed we retain in their Pri-
mitive ufe, and forfake only the Novel corrup-
tion. By this argument we might renounce the
Trinity, and all that is holy, becaufe it was abu-
fed in Popery : (and fpeaking to Doctor Rey-
nolds merily) they ufed to wear hofe and mooes
in Popery, therefore you mail now go bare-
foot.
Secondly, quoth his Majefty, what refem-
blance is there between the Brafen Serpent, a
material vifible thing, and the fign of the Croffe
made in the Aire ?
Thirdly, I am given to underftand by the
Biihops, and I find it true, that the Papifts
themfelves did never afcribe any power or fpiri-
E 4 tuall
( 56 )
tuall grace to the Signe of the CrorTe in Bap-
tifm.
Fourthly, you fee, that the material Croffes,
which in time of Popery were made, for Men
to fall down before them, as they palfed by
them, to woifhip them (as the Idolatrous Jews
did the Brafen Serpent) are demoliflied, as you
defire.
The next thing which was obje&ed, was, the
wearing of the Surplis, a kind of garment,
which the Priefts of IJis ufed to wear. Surely,
faith his Majefty, untill of late, I did not think
that it had been borrowed from the Heathen,
becaufe it is commonly tearmed, a Ragge of
Popery, in fcora ; but were it fo, yet neither
did we border upon Heathenifh Nations, neither
are any of them converfant with us, or commo-
rant amqngft us, who thereby might take juft
occafion to be flrengthned, or confirmed in Pa-
ganifrn, for then there were juft caufe to fup-
preffe the wearing of it : but feeing it appeared
put of antiquity, that in the celebration of di-
vine Service, a different habit appertained to the
Miniftry ; and principal!}', of white Linnen,; he
faw no reafon, but that in this Church, as it had
]?een, for comelineffe, and for order fake, it
ixiight be ftill continued. This being his con-
ilant
( 57 )
flant and refolute opinion, that no Church
ought further to feparate itfelf from the Church
of Rome, either in Doctrine or Ceremony, than
fhe had departed from herfelf, when fhe was in
her tlouri/hing and befl eftate, and from Chrifl
her Lord and Head. And here again he afked,
what more they had to fay.
D. Reynolds took exceptions at thofe words in
the Common Prayer Book, of Matrimony,
With my body I thee worjhip. His Majefty look-
ing upon the place • I was made believe, (faith
he) that the phrafe did import no leffe than Di-
vine worfhip and adoration : but by the exami-
nation I find, that it is an ufual Englifh tearm,
as a Gentleman of worfhip, 8§c, And the fenfe
agreeable unto Scriptures, Giving honour to the
wife, S$c. But turning to Doctor Reyn. (with
fmiling faith his Majefty) Many a man
fpeakes of Robin Hood, who never mot in his
Bow : if you had a good wife yourfelf, you
would think all the honour and worfhip you
could do to her, were well beftowed.
The Dean of Sarum mentioned the Ring in
marriage; which Do 8 or Reyn. approved, and
fhe King confejjed that he was Manned wit hall ;
find added, that he thought they xoould prove to
be
( 38 )
befcarce well Married, who are not Married wuh
a Ring.
He Ukezcife [pake of the Churching of women,
by the name of Purification, which being read
out of the book, his Majefty very well allowed it,
and plea fantly faid, that Women were loth enough
of themfelves to come to Church, and therefore he
wouMJwm^^ to draw
them thither.
And this was the fubftance and fumme of that
third general point. At which pawfe, it grow-
ing toward night, his Majefty afked again, if
they had any more to fay : If they had, be-
caufe it was late, they mould have another day ;
but M. Doctor Reynolds told him, that they
had but one point more, which was the laft ge-
neral head ; but it pleafed his Majefty, fir ft to
afk what they could fay to the Cornerd Cap ?
They all approved it: Well then, faid his Ma-
jefty, turning himfelf to the Bijhops, you may
now fajely wear your Caps : but I Jhall tell you,
if you Jhould walk in oneftreet in Scotland, with
fuch a Cap on your head, if I were not with you,
youjliould bejloned to death with your Cap.
In the fourth general head touching Difci-
pline, Doctor Reyn. firft took exception to the
committing
( 59 )
committing of Ecclefiaftical cenfures unto Lay-
Chancellors ; his reafon was, that in the Statute
made in King Henry his time, for their Autho-
rity, that was abrogated in Queen Maries time,
and not revived in the late Queens daies : and
abridged by Bifhops themfelves 1571. Order-
ing that the laid Lay-Chancellors mould not ex-
communicate in matters of Correction, and An.
1584, and 1589. Not in matters of inftance,
but to be done onely by them, who had power of
the Keies : His Majejty anfwered; He had already
conferred with his Bifhops, about that point, and
that fuch order Jhould betaken therein, as was
convenient, willing him in the mean time, to go
to fome other matter, if he had any. Then he
defireth, that according to certain provincial
conftitutions, they of the Clergy might have
meetings once every three weekes.
Firft, in Rural Deanries, and therein to have
Prophecying, according as the reverend Father
Arch-Bifhop Grindall, and other Bifhops defired
of her late Majefty *.
Secondly, that fuch things as could not be
refolved upon there, might be referred to the
Archdeacons Vifitation, and fo
* i. Cor, 14,
Thirdly,
( 60 )
Thirdly, from thence to the Epifcopal Sy-
node, where the Bilhop with his Prefbytery,
fhould determine all fuch points, as before could
not be decided.
At which fpeech, his Majefty was fomewhat
ftirred ; yet, which is admirable in him, with-
out paffion, or mew thereof; thinking that
they aymed at a Scotiih Prefbytery, which,
faith he, as well agreeth with a Monarchy, as
God and the Devil. Then Jack, and Tom, and
Will, and Dick jhall meet, and at their plea fur es
cenfure me and my Councel, and all our proceed-
ings : Then Will Jhall ft and up and fay, It muft
he thus ; then Dick jhall reply and fay, nay
Marry, hut we will have it thus. And therefore,
here I muft once reiterate my former fpeech, Le
Roy s'avifera ■ Stay I pray you, for one feven
years, before you demand that of me : and if then
you find me purfy and fat, and my wind pipes
ftujfed, I will perhaps hearken to you : for let
that Government be once up, I am fare IjJiall be
kept in breath, then jhall zve all of us have work
enough, both our hands full. But Doctor
Reynolds, till you find that I grow lazy, let that
alone.
And here, becaufe that Doctor Reyn. had
twice before obtruded the Kings Supremacie;
firft,
( 61 )
firft, in the Article concerning the Pope ; Se-
condly, in the point of fubfcription ; his Ma-
jefty at thofe times faid nothing : But now
grozvlng to an end, he faid, I Jliall fpeak of one
matter more ; yet fomexvhat oat of order : but it
fkilleth not. Doclor Reynolds quoth the King,
you have often fpokenfor my Supremacy ; and it
is well ; but know you any here, or any elfewhere,
who like of the prefent Government Ecclefiqftical,
that find fault or diflike my Supremacy ? Doclor
Reynolds faid, No. Why then, faid his Ma-
jefty, I will tell you a Tale. After that the Re-
ligion reft or ed by King Edward the Sixth, was
foon overthrozvn, by the fuccejfion of Queen Mary
here in England, we in Scotland/e^ the effecl of
it. Whereupon Mafter Knox writes to the
Queen Regent, (of whom without flattery, I
may fay, that Jhe was a vertuous and moderate
Lady,) telling her that Jhe was Supream Head of
the Church, and charged her, as jhe would an-
fiver it before Gods tribunal, to take care of
Chrift his Evangill, and of fuppr effing the Popijh
Prelates, who withftood the fame. But hozo
long, trozv ye, did this continue ? Even fo long,
till by her authority, the PopiJJi Bifhops were re-
prefied, he hhiifelfi and his Adherents were
brought in, and well fettled, and by thefe meanes
made Jlrong enough, to undertake the matters of
Reformation themfelves. Then he, they began to
make
1
( 62 )
make fmall account of her Supremacy, nor would
Ivnger reft on her authority, but took the caufe
into their oxen hand, and according to that more
light wherewith they were illuminated, made a
further lie formation of Religion. How they
ufed that poor Lady my Mother, is not unlmown,
and with grief I may remember it : zvho, becaufe
Jhe had not been othenoife injlrucled, did defire,
only a private Chapel/, xcherein to ferve God
after her manner, with fome few felecled per fons,
but her fupremacy was not fujfeient to obtain it
at their hands : And how they dealt with me in
my minority, you all know, it was not done fe-
cretly, and though I would, I cannot conceal it,
I will apply it thus. And then putting his hand
to his Hat, his Majejiy /aid, my Lords, the
Bijhops, I may thank you, that theft men do
thus plead for my Supremacy : They think they
cannot make their party good againji you, but by
appealing unto it, as if you, or fome that adhere
unto you, were not well affected towards it. But
if once you were out, and they in place, L know
what would become of my fupremacy. No Bi-
Jhop, no King, as before L faid. Neither do I
thus fpeak at randome, without ground, for I
have obferved fince my comming into England,
that fome Preachers before me, can be content to
pray for James King of England, Scotland,
France, and Ireland, Defender of the Faith,
but
( 63 )
but as for fupream Governor, in all caufes, and
over all perfons (as well Ecclejiajiical as Civil)
they pa (fe that over withjilence, 8$ what cat they
have been of, I after learned. After this,
a/king them, if they had any more to ohjecl, and
Doctor Reyn. anjwering no ; His Majefty ap-
pointed the next JVednefday for both parties to
meet before him, and rifing from his Chair, as
he was going to his inner Chamber, If this be
all, quoth he, that they have to fay, IJJiallmake
them conform themfelves, or I will harry them
out of this Land, or elfe do worfe.
And this was the fumme of the fecond dayes
Conference, which raifed fuch an admiration in
the Lords, in refpect of the King his Angular
readyneffe, and exacl: knowledge, that one of
them faid, he was fully perfwaded, his Majefty
fpake by the inftincl; of the Spirit of God. My
Lord Cicil acknowledged, that very much we
v are bound to God, who had given us a King of
an underftanding heart. My Lord Chancellor
paffing out of the privy Chamber, faid unto the
Dean of Chejier, {landing by the door ; I have
often heard and read, that Rev eft mixta per-
fona cum Sacerdote, but I never faw the truth
thereof till this day.
Surely, whofoever heard his Majefty, might
( 64 )
jufily think, that title did more properly fit hirn^
which Eunapius gave to that famous Rhetori-
cian j in faying, that he was, (ZiQxMw rig ip-v-
^PC©-* *°" irtgiirwrw pzvfiovy A living Library and
a Walking Studie.
Finis fecundm dieL
THE
THE
THIRD DAYES
CONFERENCE
UPON Wednefday, January 18. all the Bi-
iliops, aforenamed, attended at the Court,
and the Deanes : who were all called int© the
Privy Chamber, and who fo elfe my Lord
Arch-Bifhop appointed, (for fuch was his Ma-
jeures pleafure) whereupon the Knights and
Doctors of the Arches, viz. Sir Daniel Dunne,
Sir Thomas Crumpton, Sir Richard Swale, Sir
John Bennet, and Doctor Drury entred in. As
foon as the King was fet, the Lord Arch-Bifhop
prefented unto him a note of thofe points, which
his Majefty had referred to their consideration,
upon the firft day, and the alteration, or rather
explanation of them in our Liturgie.
1. Abfolution or Remiffion of finnes, in the
Kubrick of Abfolution.
F a. In
( 66 )
0. In private Baptifm, the lawful! Minifter
prefent
3. Examination, with Confirmation of Chil-
dren.
4. Jefus faid to them ; twice to be put into
the Dominical Gofpels, inftead of Jefus faid to
his Difciples.
His Majefty here, taking the Common Prayer
Book, and turning to private Baptifm, willed,
thai where the xcords were (in the Rubrick, the
fecond Paragraph) They Baptize not Chil-
dren, Now it Jhould be thus read ; They caufe
not children to be baptized ; and again in the
fame paragraph, for thofe words; Then they
Minifter it, it Jhould be; The Curate, or lawful
Minifter prefent, mall do it on this fafhion.
Concluding very gravely, that in this Conference,,
he aimed at three things principally ; Firji, The
felting down of words fit and convenient ; #e->
condly, Contriving how things might be beji
done, without appearance of alteration; Third-
ly, Pratlifed, that each man may do his duty in
his place.
After this, his Majefly fell into difcourfe about
the high Commiffion, wherein he faid, that he
6 '■■. underflood,
( 67 )
underjtbod, how the parties named therein, were
too many and too mean ; that the matters they
dealt in xoere bafe, and fuch as Ordinaries at
home in their Courts might cenfure ; that the
branches granted out to the Bijhops in their fede-
ral Dioceffes, were too frequent and large. To
which, my Lords Grace anfwered feverally.
Firft, for the number, it was requifite it mould
be great, for otherwife, he muft be forced, as
oft-times now it fell out, to fit alone, becaufe,
that albeit all the Lords of the Privy Counfel
were in, all the Bifhops, many of the Judges at
Law, and fome of the Clerks of the CounceJ,
yet very few, or none of them, fitting with him
at ordinary times, fome of meaner place, as
Deanes, and Doctors of Divinity, and Law,
mull needs be put in ; whofe attendance his
Grace might with more authority command and
expect. Secondly, for the matters handled
therein, he faid, that he oftentimes had com-
plained thereof, but faw that it could not be re-
medied ; becaufe, that the fault may be of that
nature, as that the ordinary jurifdicYion might
cenfure it: but eftfoones it falls out, that the
party delinquent is too great, and fo the Ordi-
nary dare not proceed againft him ; or fo migh-
ty in his (late, or fo wilful in his contumacie,
that he will not obey the Summons or cenfure ;
and fo the Ordinary is forced to crave help at
F 2 the
< 68 )
the High CommhTion. To the third, his Gracs
faid, that it concerned not him to make anfwer
thereunto, for fuch Commiffions have been
granted againlt his will oftentimes, and without
his knowledge for the moil part. My Lord
Chancellor therefore offered it to his Majefties
wifdom to confider, if fuch Commiffions mould
not be granted to any Bifhop, but fuch as have
the largeft Btoceffes, which his Majefty well ap-
proved: and added withall, that thofe Bijhops
who have in their Diocejfes, the moji troublefome
and refraEtory perfons, either Papijls, or Puri-
tans : but of this, as alfo of the other things
found fault with herein, he willed thofe to con-
fute, to zrfwm JJwuld be appointed the reviexv of
the Commiffion. And here that point had end-
ed, but that one of the Lords, (I think verily
rather upon mifinformation, than fet purpofe,)
pleafed to fay, that the proceeding thereby,
was like unto the Spanijh Inquifition, wherein
men were urged to fubfcribe more than Law re-
quired ; that by the Oath Ex officio, they were
in forced to accufe themfelves ; that they were ex-
amined upon 20, or 24. Articles, upon the fud-
den, without deliberation, and for the moll.
part againft themfelves : for the evidence
thereof, a letter was mewed of an ancient Ho-
nourable Councellor, written to the Lord Arch-
Biihop, Anno. 1584, of two Miniiters of Cam-
bridgejhiref
( 69 )
bridge/hire, then or there abouts, examined
upon many Articles, and in the end deprived,
The Lord Arch-Bimop anfwered, firft, to the
matter, that in the manner of proceeding, and
examining, bis Lordfhip was deceived: for if
any Article did touch the party any way, either
for life, liberty, or fcandal, he might refitfe t©
anfwer, neither was be urged thereunto. Se-
condly, to the letter, being in a caufe twenty
years fince determined, he could not anfwer the
particulars, but if his anfwer to that letter were
found out* he doubted not, but as it did fatisfie
that honourable Councellour when he lived, fo
it would alfo fufficiently clear this complaint be-
fore his Majeiiy.
My Lord of London, for the matter of Sub-
fcription, iliewed his HighnevTe the 3. Articles
which the Church-men of England, are to ap-
prove by Subfcribing; namely, the Kings Su-
premacy, the Articles of Religion, and the
Book of Common Prayer. All which it pleafed
his Majefty himfelf, to read, (and after a little
glance given, that the mention of the Oath Ex
officio, came in before his due time) he dilated,
firft, how rieceifary Subfcription was, in every
well governed Church ; that it was to be urged,
for the keeping of peace : for as Laws to prevent
killing, did provide there mould be no quarrel-
F S ling;
( 70 )
ling ; fo to prevent greater tumults in the
Church, fubfcription was requifite. Secondly,
becaufe the\Biihop is to anfwer for every Mini-
fter, whom he admitteth into his DiocefTe, it
were fitted for him, to know the affection of
the party before his admittance, the bed way to
know him, and to prevent future factions, was
to urge his fubfcription at his firft entrance i
for, Turpiiis ejicitur, quam non admit titur hofpes.
Thirdly, as fubfcription was a good meanes to
difcern the affection of perfons, whether, quiet
or turbulent ; Withall it was the principal way to
amid confujion : concluding, that if any, after
things were well ordered, would not be quiet, and
Jhezo his obedience, the Church were better with-
out him, he were worthy to be hanged, Praeftat
ut pereat unus, quam unitas.
Touching the Oath -Ex officio, the Lord
Chancellor, and after him the Lord Treafurer,
fpake both for the neceffity, and ufe thereof in
diverfe Courts, & cafes. But his Excellent
Majefty preventing that old allegation, Nemo
cogitur. detegere fuam turpitudinem, /aid, that
the Civil proceedings only puniJJied fads, but in
Courts Ecclejiajiical, it was requifite, that Tame
and Scandals jhould be looked unto. That here
was necejjary, the Oath Compurgatorie, and the
Oath Ex officio too ; and yet great moderation
Jhould
( 71 )
Jhould be ufed, firft, In gravioribus criminibus :
and Secondly, in fuch, whereof there is a pub lick
fame : Thirdly, in diftinguifiiing of publick Fame,
either caufed by the inordinate demeanor of the
offendor, or raifed by the undifcreet proceeding in
trial of the facl : as namely in Scotland, where
the lying with a wench (though done privately,
and known, or fcarce fufpecled by two or three
perfons before) was made openly knoxvn to the
King, to the Queen, to the Prince, to many
hundreds in the Court, by bringing the parties to
the fool of Repentance, and yet pei^haps be but a
fufpicion only. And here his Majcfty fo foundly
defcribed the Oath Ex -officio : Firft, for the
ground thereof : Secondly, The wifdom of the
Law therein ; Thirdly, The manner of proceeding
thereby, and the necejjary and profitable effeel
thereof, in fuch a compendious, but abfolute or-
der, that all the Lords and the reft of the prefent
Auditors, food amazed at it : The Arch-Biihop
of Canterbury faid that undoubtedly his Majefty
fpake by the fpecial affiftance of Gods Spirit.
The Bifhop of London upon his knee, protefted,
that his heart melted within him, (as fo he
doubted not, did the hearts of the whole Com-
pany) with joy, and made hafte to acknowledge
unto Almighty God, the Angular mercy we
have received at his hands, in giving us fuch a
King, as fince Chrift his time, the like he
F 4 thought
( 72 )
thought had not been, whereunto the Lords
with one voice, did yield a very affectionate Ac-
clamation. The Civilians prefent confeffed,
that they could not in many houres warning,
have fo judicially, plainly, and accurately, and
in fuch a brief manner have defcribed it.
After this, his Majejiy committed fome
weighty mutters to be confulted of, by the Lords
and Bijhops ; Eirfi, for Excommunication, in
caufes of leffe moment the name or cenfure to be
altered, fecondly, for the high Commiffion, the
quality of the perfons to be named, and the na-
ture of the caufes to be handled therein. Third-
ly, for recufant Communicants ; for there art
three forts, faith his Majejiy, of Papifis : Some,
firfl, which come to Sermons, but not to femice
and prayer ; fecondly, fome which come to both
them, but not to the Communion; timidly, a
number which abftain from all That inquiry
might be made of all thofe, who were of the firfl,
fecond, or third rank, concluding therein, That
the weak were to be informed, the wilful to be pu-
nijhed.
Here my Lord Chancellor mentioned the writ
De Excommunicato capiendo, which his Honor
laid did moll affright the Papifts, of all other
puniiliments, becaufe by reafon of that they
were
( 73 )
were many wayes difabled in law : therefore he
would take order, if his Majefty fo pleafed, to
fend that writ out againft them freely without
charge, and if they were not executed, his Lord-
ihip would lay the Under- iherhTes in Prifon, and
to this the King affented.
The fourth thing to be confulted of zvas for the
finding and appointing of Preachers into Ireland,
whereof, faith his Majefty, I am but half a
King, being Lord over their bodies, but their
foules feduced by Popery, he much pittied, affirm-
ing, that where there is not true Religion, there
can be no continued obedience : nor for Ireland
only, but for fome part of Wales, and the Nor-
thern borders, fo once called, though noiv no bor-
ders : the men to be fent, not to be fatlious, or
fiandalous, for weeds will be weeds, whei^efoever
they be, and are good for nothing, but to be
piked over the wall, therefore they Jhould Jin-
gle out men of fincerity, of knowledge, of cou-
rage.
The lafl was, for provifion of fufficient mainte-
nance for the Clergie ; ana I wit hall, for the plant-
ing of a learned and painful Minifter in every Pa-
rijh, as time fliall ferve.
To every of thefe, his Majefty willed that feveral
Commi/Jioners
( 74 )
Commiffioners of his Councel and Bijhops Jhould
be appointed by the Lords upon the dijfolvmg the
qffemhty prefent.
And thus having conferred of thefe points
with the Biihops, and referred other fome of
them, as you heard, to fpecial Committies, his
Majefty willed, that Doctor Reyn. and his affo-
ciates, mould be called in, to whom, he pre-
fently fignified, what was done, and caufed the
alterations, or explications, before named, to
be read unto them. A litle difputing there
was, about the words in Marriage, With my
body I thee xvorjhip, and arguing no other thing*
to be meant, by the word worfliip, than -that,
which Saint Paul willeth, 1. Cor. 7. 4. the man
thereby acknowledging, that hereby he wor-
fhipeth his wife, in that he appropriated his
body unto her alone : nor any more, than that
which S. Peter counfelleth, 1. Pet. 3. 7. That
the man mould give honour to his wife, as the
weaker veffel ; yet for their fatisfacYion mould
be put in, With my body I thee wor/hip, and
honour, if it were thought fit ; and fo his Ma-
jefty fhut up all with a moft pithy exhortation
to both fides for Unity, perfwading diligence in
each mans place, without violence on the one
party, or difobedience on the other, and willed
them to deal with their friends abroad to that
purpofe :
( 75 )
£m!'pofe : For his Majefty feared, and had feme
experience, that many of them were tickliili
and humorous ; nor that only, but labourers to
pervert others to their fancies ; he now faw that
the exceptions againft the Communion Book,
were matters of weakneffe ; therefore if the per-
fons reluctant be difcreet, they will be won be-
times, and by good perfwafions ; if undifcreet,
better they were removed : For many by their
factious behaviour were driven to be Papifts.
Now then of their fruits he mall judge them,
obedience and humility being marks of Honeft
and good men. & is expected of them ; and by
their example and perfwafion of all their fort
abroad, for, if hereafter, things being thus well
ordered, they fhould be unquiet, neither his
Majefty, nor the ftate, had any caufe to think
well of them.
To which, they gave all their unanimous at
fent, taking exceptions againft nothing that
was faid or done, but promifed to perform all
duty to the Bifhops, as their Reverend Fathers,
and to joyn with them againft the common ad-
verfaries, and for the quiet of the Church.
Only, Mafter Chatterton, of Emmanuel CoU
Ugey kneeling, requefted that the wearing of
the Surplis, and the ufe of the CrofTe in Bap-
tifm,
( re j
tifm, might not be urged upon fome honen\
godly, and painful Minifters in fome parts of
Lancajhire, who feared, that if they mould be
forced to them, many whom they had won to
the Gofpel, would Hide back, and revolt unto
Popery again ; and particularly, inftanced the
Vicar of Ratefdale (he could not have light
upon a worfe,) for not many years before, he
was proved before my Lord Arch Biihop, as his
Grace there teftified, and my Lord Chancel-
lour, by his unfeemly, and unreverent ufage
of the Eucharift, dealing the bread out of a
bafket, every man putting in his hand, and
taking out a peece, to have made many loath
the Communion, and wholly refufe to come to
Church.
His Majefty anficered, that it was not his pur-
pofe, and he durfi an fiver for the Bijhops, that it
was not their intent, prefently, and out of hand
to inforce thofe tilings, without Fatherly admo-
nitions, conferences and perfwafions premifed ;
but wifhed, that it mould be examined, if thofe
men by their pains and preaching, had con*
verted any from Popery, and were withall men
of quiet difpofition, honed of life, and diligent
in their calling; if fo, Letters mould be writ-
ten to the Biiliop of Chejler, (of whom his Ma-
jefty gave a very good teftimony) to that pur-
9 pofe,
( 77 )
pofe ; if not, but that they were of a turbulent
& opofite Spirit, both they, & others of that un-
quiet humor, mould prefently be enforced to a
conformity : and fo for that point, it was con-
cluded, that my Lord Arch-bimop ihould write
to the Biiliop of Chejler, his Letters for that
matter.
My Lord of London replieth, that if this were
granted, the Copy of thefe letters (efpecially, if
his Majejiy had written, as at fi rft it was purpo-
{ed) would flie over all England, and then
others, for their confines, would make the fame
requeft, and fo no fruit would follow of this
Conference, but things would be worfe than
they were before.
Therefore he humbly defired his Majejiy,
that a time mould be limited, within which
compaffe, they mould conform themfelves. To
which his Majejiy readily ajfented, and willed,
that the Bijhop of the DioceJJb, Jhould fet them
down the time, and in the mean while conferred
with them, and if they would not yield, whatfo-*
ever they were, to remove them, after their time
expired.
No fooner was that motion ended, but down
falls Matter Knewftubs. and he requefts the like
favour
( n j
favour of forbearance, for fome honefi Minfc
Iters in Suffolk, telling the King, it would
make much againfl their Credits in the Coun-
try, to be now forced to the Surplis, and the
Croffe in Baptifm. My Lords Grace was an-
fwering ; Nay, faith his Mqjejty, let me alone
with him. Sir, faith the King, you Jhexv your
felf an uncharitable man, we have here taken
paines, and in the end have concluded of an unity,
and uniformity, and you forfooth, muft prefer re
the Credits of a few private men, before the ge-
neral peace of the Church : this is juji the SeotiJIi
Argument ; for when any thing was there con^
eluded, which difliked fome humors, the only rea-
fon why they would not obey, was, it food not
with their credits to yield, having fo lo?ig time
been of the contrary opinion ; I will none of that,
faith the King, and therefore, either let them
conform themfelves, and that Jhortly, or theyjhall
hear of it. My Lord drill put his Majefty in
mind, of a word his HighnevTe had ufed the day
before, namely, of Ambling Communions, fay-
ing, that the indecency thereof, was very offen-
sive, and had driven many from the Church :
And here M after Chatterton was told of fitting
Communions in Emanuel College ; which he
faid was fo, by reafon of the feats fo plac'd as
they be, yet that they had fome kneeling alfo.
Finally,
( 79 )
finally, they joyntly promifed to be quiet
and obedient, now they knew it to be the Kings
mind to have it fo. His Majefties gracious con-
clufion was fo piercing, as that it fetched tears
from fome on both fides. My Lord of London
ended all, in the name of the whole company,
with a Thankfgiving unto God for his Majefty,
and a prayer for the health and profperity of his
HighnerTe, our gracious Queen, the young
Prince, and all their Royal IfTue.
His Majefty departed into the inner Cham-
ber : All the Lords prefently went to the Coun-
cil Chamber, to appoint Commiffioners for the
feveral matters before referred.
FINIS,
TH£ PREFACE.
li/TANY Copies were fent me, "whereof fomt
JJtJL were pG Jhamelefsly untrue, and I afjure you
fo obfcmie, that I think his Majefy would have
been as much offended with me for Printing, as
with the Authors for difperjing them ; I have
chofen thereof the hefi and cleanliefl, which do
here under follow.
I give no Cenfure, neither know I the difper-
fer$9 let the Reader confer re and judge, Reftum
eft judex fui & obliqui*
THE FIRST COPY.
January y 15. 1603.
vOIR, I cannot conceal from you the good
^ fuccefs which it hath pleafed God to fend us,
by the Conference which his Majefiy had with
the Bifhs. at the Court. There appeared none
but the Bifhs. which were with the King above
three hours. Canter. Lond. JVint. fell down on
their knees, and defired, that all things might
remain, left the Papifts mould think we have
been in an errour. The King replyed, that in
4g. years corruptions might creep in.
He fpake of Confirmation, private Baptifm,
the Crofs, dumb Miniftery, Non refidence, the
Courts, which he promifed to amend, efpecially
he fpake bitterly againft private Baptifm, fay-
ing, he had as lieve an Ape as a Woman ihould
baptize his Child, and againft Courts, which
he faid he would put down. The Lord Chief
Juftice, and the Lord Keeper fpake much
againft them, and the Lord Ceciil againft Excom-
munications . by Lay-men. M. Dean of the
G Chapel
\
( 82 )
Chapel fpeaking fomething to the King in. his
ear, the Biihop of London infolently faid unto
him, Doctor Montague, fpeak out, that we
may hear you, and feek not to cfolfe us. At
their departure they faid, that if the King
mould ufe the Minifters in fuch fort, as they
were ufed, they would be too infolent. The
King faid, they were his fubjecls, and if he
would not hear them, then they had juft caufe
to complain. The Bifliops brought forth many
Popi/h arguments, which the King very ear-
nestly anfwered, and learnedly, more than ten
times calling them Papifh arguments, and faid,
by thofe reafons they might prove Popery.
The Biihop of JVincheJier faid, that if he took
away private Baptifm, he overthrew all anti-
quity. The Biihop of Peterbproxv brought forth
a fooliih argument, with much difgrace to him-
felf. The Bifliops having taken Wednefday, to
confider of the Kings fpeech, the Minifters
came to the King on Monday at nine of the
clock. Honeft men about the Court are com-
forted. Conformitans hang down their head%
and the Bifliops men curfe the Puritans.
Sic explicit prima dies.
ANOTHER
ANOTHER COPY.
Have fent you the declaration of the Confer-
-*- ence, the which was in this manner: the
firft day the Bifhops of Canterbury, London,
and Winchefter, making earned fute, that all
things might ftand as they did, left the Papifts
mould take offence, who might fay, we would
perfwade them to come to a Church, having
errours in it; and the Puritans will fay, they
have been perfecuted long. The King an-
fwered, That the beft flate would gather cor-
ruptions, and that it was no Argument for
them to fay, They would not be cured of the
Pox, becaufe they had it 30. years. He con-
cluded againft Abfolution, Confirmation, pri-
vate Baptifm, the dumb and fcandalous Mini-
fters, Pluralities, the Courts, and the authority
of the Bifhops by the high Commiffioners, fyc.
The fecond day the Ministers were convented
before the King, who anfwered fearfully and
modeftly : the Bifhop of London behaved him-
G 2 felf
( §4 )
ielf infolently, faying thefe are Cartwrights
Schollars, Schifmatikes, breakers of your Ma-
jefties Laws, you may know them by their
Turky gownes and filk Turky Grogaram. The
third clay, they met all, where the King fpake
much to unity, that they might joyn againft
the Papifts. All the three daies the King be-
haved himfelf admirable to the beholders, grant-
ing to the Minifters their earneft requeft, that
the Ceremonies of the Crofs in Baptifm, and
the Surplifes, reverent for antiquity, mould not
be urged upon the confciences of the Minifters,
ib that they were peaceable men, and that they
iliould have time to coniider of them, many
hundreds being refolvecl rather to have loft their
places, than to have yielded to thofe fuperfti-
tions, againft which they had preached. The
laft day the Bimop of Canterbury was intreated,
to be a meanes that the Ceremonies might not
be preffed : but he anfwered, they had been
urged as neeeffary, and mould be fo (till. But
it pleafed God to move his Majefty to a more
peaceable courfe : the Biihop of Peterborow
came in with his argument about Baptifm, which
the King made void to his great reproach : The
King faid many times, that the Bifhops reafons
were Popifh, and that they might eftablifh Po-
pery by them : it is thought that the King will
be ihortly in Ilnntington-Jhire. The Lord
Chancellor,
( M )
Chancellor, the Lord Cicitt, the Lord Chief
Jujlice, and the Atturney Generally mull fet
down fome courfe for the high Commiffion, and
the fpiritual CourtSo
A THIRD
A THIRD COPY.
Some of the fpeecbes that are bruted, upon M.
Doctor Reynold's return to Oxon, concerning
the late conference before his Majejly.
1. HP HAT the Kings Majefty did gratifie
-*- Mafter Doctor Reynolds in every thing
which he propofed : or that Doctor Reynolds
obtained and prevailed in every thing he did de-
fire.
2. That if any man report the contrary, he
doth lie, or that they fhould give him the lie,
from M. Doctor Reynolds.
3. That thefe things now obtained by the re-
formers, were but the beginning of reformation :
the greater matters are yet to come.
4. That my Lord of JVinton ftood mute, and
faid little or nothing.
5. That
( 87 )
5. That my Lord of London called Doctor
Reynolds Schifmatick indeed (he thanks him for
it) but otherwife faid little to purpofe.
6. That the Kings Majefly ufed the Biihops
with very hard words, but imbraced Matter
Do6lor Reynolds, and ufed moil kind fpeeches
to him.
7. That my Lord of Canterbury, or my Lord
of London, falling on his knees, befought his
Majefty to take their caufe into his own hands,
and to make fome good end of it, fuch as might
ftand with their credit,
FINIS.
Bye and Law, Printers, St. John's Square Clerkenwell.
o CV
^ -^
Deacidified using the Bookkeeper process.
Neutralizing agent: Magnesium Oxide
Treatment Date: April 2005
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